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How much mathematics do we need today?

psionl0

Skeptical about skeptics
psionl0
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Recently, it has been asked, Is Higher-Level Math needed for everyone? Clearly the answer is no.

However, it occurs to me that a more appropriate question would be, "what is the minimum amount of mathematics we need to get by today?" Clearly we need to be able to do some financial calculations and we need a good enough understanding of statistics so that we can tell if someone is trying to sell us a pup.

In terms of specifics, I would start off with the following skills:
- Mental arithmetic
- Fractions, decimals, percentages
- Ability to use formulas
- etc

There are others that I think should be added but I will throw it over to other JREFers for now.
 
Personally I've never had to use much other than basic mental arithmetic and fractions/decimals/percentages. But then again I don't work as an engineer (for example), who would have to use a lot more mathematics in their day-to-day work than I do.
 
I concede that most people do not need infinitesimal calculus but if someone wants to go into engineering after high school you need it a lot and teaching it has to be started way before you graduate from HS. The role of school up to the level of HS should be to teach broad range of subjects one of which is math.

Niall Ferguson says in his book The Ascent of Money that the world is divided into those not knowledgeable about financial world and those who know. His opinion is that this is one of the many reasons of growing inequality. People should know math so well that they could understand the basics of finance, be confident about calculating percentages and understand compounding interest so hopefully they would not max their credit cards at all times and take a loan that is not reasonable.
 
arthwollipot said:
Personally I've never had to use much other than basic mental arithmetic and fractions/decimals/percentages. But then again I don't work as an engineer (for example), who would have to use a lot more mathematics in their day-to-day work than I do.
Click to expand...
When you are negotiating a financial deal, do you understand the discussion or do you wait for the guy to stop talking so you can sign on the bottom line?
 
psionl0 said:
Recently, it has been asked, Is Higher-Level Math needed for everyone? Clearly the answer is no.

However, it occurs to me that a more appropriate question would be, "what is the minimum amount of mathematics we need to get by today?" Clearly we need to be able to do some financial calculations and we need a good enough understanding of statistics so that we can tell if someone is trying to sell us a pup.

In terms of specifics, I would start off with the following skills:
- Mental arithmetic
- Fractions, decimals, percentages
- Ability to use formulas
- etc

There are others that I think should be added but I will throw it over to other JREFers for now.
Click to expand...

I think I brought this up in the other thread. My high school required everybody to pass Algebra and Geometry to graduate. But passing those classes was fairly easy. Easier than History or English. If you could pass 25% of the course, you would get a D, or usually a C-.

And that is probably about where it should be. A high school graduate should have a very basic understanding of algebra and geometry. They should “know what it is about” but not much more. The important part is that they “grasp the concept”. As long as everybody gets that, the rest is a buncha formulas and number crunching. Pay the nerds to do that.
 
psionl0 said:
Recently, it has been asked, Is Higher-Level Math needed for everyone? Clearly the answer is no.

However, it occurs to me that a more appropriate question would be, "what is the minimum amount of mathematics we need to get by today?" Clearly we need to be able to do some financial calculations and we need a good enough understanding of statistics so that we can tell if someone is trying to sell us a pup.

In terms of specifics, I would start off with the following skills:
- Mental arithmetic
- Fractions, decimals, percentages
- Ability to use formulas
- etc

There are others that I think should be added but I will throw it over to other JREFers for now.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that mental arithmetic is necessarily good. Without a calculator, writing your calculations down allows you to check for errors. Drawing diagrams helps problem solving.
 
psionl0 said:
When you are negotiating a financial deal, do you understand the discussion or do you wait for the guy to stop talking so you can sign on the bottom line?
Click to expand...

I don't think I've yet have to discuss a deal of any sort where percentages (and recursions, admittedly) wouldn't have been enough to understand what was going on.

The most complicated thing I have going on is a pension scheme supported by me, my employer and the government. But all of that - if I understood it correctly - breaks down into different people contributing different percentages of the total, and cumulative interest.

i.e. I pay x% of my salary, my employer pays z% on top of what I paid, or maybe a fixed sum, I'd have to look. The government makes this tax-deductible, i.e. I am not paying income tax on the money I put in, making the x% somewhat smaller in real terms.

Money accumulates over the years.

I die before ever seeing a penny of it all - the end.
 
I would also add a basic knowledge of statistics. Like being able to answer correctly a question like this
You guess the result of a toss of a fair 6 sided die and pay one coin. If you guess right you get 5 coins back. If you do this lots of times do you end up richer or poorer? All coins are of the same value.

Plus what DevilsAdvocate said, a knowledge of Algebra and Geometry.


Edit. I guess people should understand both probability and statistics.
 
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psionl0 said:
When you are negotiating a financial deal, do you understand the discussion or do you wait for the guy to stop talking so you can sign on the bottom line?
Click to expand...
As a rule, I do not negotiate financial deals, because I tend to do exactly that. Fortunately, I have someone who can do that stuff on my behalf.

Yes, I'm absolutely serious.
 
Baloney said:
All of it.
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How much mathematics do we need today?

Understanding the terms of a house loan and a rapid loan take some effort.
 
If you want to think of it like that, then higher level reading isn't needed by anyone, either. For that matter, any higher level education isn't needed. But for those that have the higher level education, and got the jobs based off of it, yeah, they need it.

Same with math. Those college courses I took with the applied mathematics in it have a purpose. I use some of it and wish I had the desire to remember more of it so that I could use that too. Especially around here where questions come up all the time that could be answered with the right equations.
 
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arthwollipot said:
As a rule, I do not negotiate financial deals, because I tend to do exactly that. Fortunately, I have someone who can do that stuff on my behalf.
Click to expand...
This is what I am referring to. You need to possess a certain knowledge of maths to work out your finances - whether it is your own knowledge or someone else's.
 
But if everyone knew that much math there would be no casinos and lotteries.
 
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