How does one market skepticism?

Look at this woman. Well, Mercutio this lady is a fine example of a skeptic. She has challenged fixed beliefs and traditons of ages in her country...snip....She will never wear a bikini for you or for anybody. Maybe she has scars all over her body and guess what MAYBE she grasped the essence of education which is to turn us all from animals of various genders that we are into human beings and critical thinkers and she DOESN'T WANT to be again an animal of female gender( I am talking for the social lives of individuals of course). Asking somebody who has overcome the stage of gender to return to it in order to "advertize" what pushed him or her out if it is ridiculous.
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How do you know she wouldn't wear a bikini? YOU'RE making the assumption that she wouldn't because she is a skeptic, your statement reminds me of what non-skeptics think about skeptics everyday. If I am not understanding you correctly please explain further. Why not show that skeptical people have the same feelings and emotions as other people, that they are NOT uncaring, and do like to have fun like the rest of us, does that make us animals? Just because we admire the human form (male or female), are we supposed to be classified as animals, or that we aren't "evolved" enough?
As for you're analogy of people in bikinis standing outside of a woo-woo store, I think that this WOULD be a good idea, for a few reasons:

1-It would bring alot more attention to the people you want to reach than posting photos of Titan outside the store with perhaps a caption like, "If you find this photo interesting, you too could be a skeptic".

2-People may start to question the notion of "Well skeptics are people who spend most of their time in ivory towers looking down on the rest of us", and they look like they like to have a little fun too, because they are amongst us AND in bikinis.

3-From an advertising and/or promoting standpoint, reality is that sex sells, plain and simple. Skeptics are supposed to be proponents of reality, well... sex sells, you may not like it, but that's reality. Why not use it to atleast get people's attention?

Your last post kind of sounds like "preaching to the converted" in a way. You are promoting science to the scientific. If I am wrong, please explain further.

edited for spelling
 
Other than perhaps in a very distant, "look here" sort of marketing way, will someone please tell me what bikini's have to do with this, please? And why, if this is 'marketing' would the SKEPTIC be wearing the bikini (thong if male, whatever)? Wouldn't a marketeer hire models?
 
Other than perhaps in a very distant, "look here" sort of marketing way
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That's pretty much my point, get people's attention, "look here". Also it may help to address the stereotype that skeptics are "seen as grumpy old men." (quote Mercutio).

if this is 'marketing' would the SKEPTIC be wearing the bikini (thong if male, whatever)? Wouldn't a marketeer hire models?
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Models to attract, with knowledge of skeptic views, at the very least. This is just one way to appeal to other people.

Well let's see, another suggestion was to sponser skeptic books in libraries. I don't know about the rest of you, I do go to my local library, and first off, not too many people there to begin with (oh, btw, I DO live in a city with a university). Secondly, the skeptics books that are there, very new looking, as if they had hardly been borrowed.....
 
H3LL said:


Marketing to a group that do not understand your language is a waste of time.
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I disagree. I think marketing to a group that does not understand your language is a challenge. A challenge that, when met successfully, results in international recognition that crosses cultural and racial boundaries, as well.
 
Chocolate Chip said:
How do you know she wouldn't wear a bikini? YOU'RE making the assumption that she wouldn't because she is a skeptic, your statement reminds me of what non-skeptics think about skeptics everyday. If I am not understanding you correctly please explain further. Why not show that skeptical people have the same feelings and emotions as other people, that they are NOT uncaring, and do like to have fun like the rest of us, does that make us animals? Just because we admire the human form (male or female), are we supposed to be classified as animals, or that we aren't "evolved" enough?
As for you're analogy of people in bikinis standing outside of a woo-woo store, I think that this WOULD be a good idea, for a few reasons:

1-It would bring alot more attention to the people you want to reach than posting photos of Titan outside the store with perhaps a caption like, "If you find this photo interesting, you too could be a skeptic".

2-People may start to question the notion of "Well skeptics are people who spend most of their time in ivory towers looking down on the rest of us", and they look like they like to have a little fun too, because they are amongst us AND in bikinis.

3-From an advertising and/or promoting standpoint, reality is that sex sells, plain and simple. Skeptics are supposed to be proponents of reality, well... sex sells, you may not like it, but that's reality. Why not use it to atleast get people's attention?

Your last post kind of sounds like "preaching to the converted" in a way. You are promoting science to the scientific. If I am wrong, please explain further.

edited for spelling
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excellent post. :)
Skeptics - they are amongst us AND in bikinis.

I think Mr. Randi needs to pimp it up a bit, too. He needs dancers to get the crowds ready for his entrance and then walk in with a babe on each arm.

The JREF BS Dancers!
( Bikini Squad )

Penn could probably hook him up with the dancers. They already do TAM in Vegas...
 
Cleopatra said:

I am not against of looking for better ways to pass a message although I don't think that a way of thinking constitutes a message but anyway but when I am reading cliches about old boring male skeptics, calenders, skepchicks and such I am thinking; are we looking for ways to frame our selves in a stereotype just because it seems that sells? I thought that we were fighting such things.
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Maybe you could have your avatar strip as a fundraiser !

You can let us know about it in your sig file/cyber- love life updates.
 
Sorry to bring this thread back to a more mundane discussion... (women in bikini's are never mundane, and a skepfem in a bikini especially!), but Diogenes made what I think is a really great suggestion over in the Challenges forum:

Diogenes said:
With all the " Reality " crap on TV these days, you might think there would be an audience for a show about...

" The JREF Million Dollar Challenge "...

It might be well worth it for someone with an inside connection to the industry to explore this..
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Seems to me that Randi has some pretty good show-biz connections... and that with shows like MythBusters being popular, a reality tv show that offers a paranormal challenge might really be a hit. And what a way to get a skeptical message across? Here's a million bucks if you can show us paranormal powers!

I guarantee that people will tune in to watch. :)
 
jmercer said:
Sorry to bring this thread back to a more mundane discussion... (women in bikini's are never mundane, and a skepfem in a bikini especially!), but Diogenes made what I think is a really great suggestion over in the Challenges forum:



Seems to me that Randi has some pretty good show-biz connections... and that with shows like MythBusters being popular, a reality tv show that offers a paranormal challenge might really be a hit. And what a way to get a skeptical message across? Here's a million bucks if you can show us paranormal powers!

I guarantee that people will tune in to watch. :)
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I like the idea, but what bothers me is "how will we get any psychics, etc, to actually go on the show"?

Imagine if Sylvia had to prove herself on TV, not just in private.
 
jj said:
I like the idea, but what bothers me is "how will we get any psychics, etc, to actually go on the show"?

Imagine if Sylvia had to prove herself on TV, not just in private.
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First off, I hate "Reality TV shows" on principle, because most of them are about hurting or humiliating people... or getting them to hurt each other. This one should be done in such a way that the humiliation is self-inflicted without any encouragement from the show.

Who cares if Sylvia, Geller or the other 'name brands' go on the show or not? Oh, don't get me wrong - I'd love to see them crash and burn like they deserve. But - consider the larger message that repeated failed attempts of even no-names would make!

Put $1,000,000 in cash in a bullet-proof clear-glass container. Roll it out at the start of each show... and watch each greedy little individual line up to show their "powers". Let them boast "privately" on camera about their "powers". Interview them afterwards, get their reactions to their failures for all the world to see. If they break down, have staff console them, offer to get them counseling. If they're indignant, cry foul, or "cheater!", simply reiterate the scrupulously fair arrangements that THEY agreed to in advance.

Capture - in secret - as many of them actually cheating as possible. :D

After a while, people are going to start saying "Nobody's ever going to win this thing"... and as long as they don't say "because it's fixed" after that statement, we will have done a great service for the public. :)

Of course, the challenge is to make the entire show so transparently fair that it's obviously not fixed. I'm sure that can be worked out. :)

And since you mentioned it... after a few weeks (or months) of debunking no-names... pull a surprise. CHALLENGE Sylvia (et. al.) to come on the show and take a test - double or nothing! Since they're the self-advertised "real deal", they're going to take a big crediblity hit by declining no matter how they choose to portray it. :D
 
jmercer said:
And since you mentioned it... after a few weeks (or months) of debunking no-names... pull a surprise. CHALLENGE Sylvia (et. al.) to come on the show and take a test - double or nothing! Since they're the self-advertised "real deal", they're going to take a big crediblity hit by declining no matter how they choose to portray it. :D
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Ooh....... :) :) :)
 
Bet you Randi could interest Derren Brown in this. He's hot in the UK right now, and I'll bet he'd jump at the chance for an entry into the US TV audience's awareness. And given his performance overseas, I'll bet that one of the networks would be interested in picking him up for the show.

Randi could do show intro's and/or conclusions... the show could have a regular panel of "judges", such as Penn & others. Have guest judges appear on a regular basis, too. :)
 
Penn said, at TAM3, that they had pitched such a show. The execs, though, listened to the marketing people who said "ok, great, but 20% of the claims have to be successful for people to watch it, and we have to eventually give away the million, or the show won't work!"

So...they did not do the show.
 
I was just wondering, I know that religious organisations often have summer camps for children (some are even free for some kids under the poverty line). Why not something like that but from skeptics. Now I've heard of kids going to "computer camp", and "science camp", maybe more along the lines of science camps but with critical thinking classes and such added in, even have some magicians come by to perform tricks, and explain to kids that magic is not supernatural, things like that.
I'm not a parent, but I do remember hearing about science camps, but not so much anymore. How much would it cost for some of these camps as compared to financing a T.V. program? Perhaps locate these camps near to large urban areas to get as many people to go as possible, plus being near largely populated areas would give added exposure to as many people as possible?
 
JJ - at the end of the day, no matter how your market scepticism / mediumship, it is down to the choice of the individual. People will always make up their own minds, when it comes to the paranormal.:p
 
Janice said:
JJ - at the end of the day, no matter how your market scepticism / mediumship, it is down to the choice of the individual. People will always make up their own minds, when it comes to the paranormal.:p
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Indeed, and the function of marketing is to get people to make up their minds, eh?

Edited to add:

I just noticed it's your very first post. Welcome!
 
Chocolate Chip said:
How much would it cost for some of these camps as compared to financing a T.V. program? Perhaps locate these camps near to large urban areas to get as many people to go as possible, plus being near largely populated areas would give added exposure to as many people as possible?
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I've seen ads for a couple of secular summer camps. I have no idea at all what they are like, and none have been within consideration distance for me.

It ought to be possible, I think, to run a 'secular skeptical camp' where kids learn how to do "tricks" and how to discover when "tricks" are involved. I certainly don't have the skills, either to run one or to sell the services, though.
 
tamiO said:
I thought this was a great suggestion and so I copied and pasted this idea into the thread at SkepticalCommunity.com
( http://skepticalcommunity.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=105263&highlight=#105263 )
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Here in Tennessee, they seem to have something like this. I know little about it, as I am a hermit scientist. Their spin on it seems like a great way to spread an appreciation for science.

http://www.reason4.us/~rationalists/cq/index.php

This thread goes to the heart of what I see as our culture's biggest problem today. The solution isn't going to be easy, but I'm glad we're discussing it. We definitely need an plan and to take some action.
 
I am going to share my personal experience. It is therefore anecdotal, sorry, and therefore not indicative of how others come to be exposed to skepticism.

I stumbled on the process of inquiry quite by accident. I was fortunate to do so.

I had a friend (who also fortunately stumbled onto inquiry) who bought loads of Skeptic and Skeptical Inquirer magazines, and I read and read, until I decided to buy my own. I had heard of the scientific process prior to this, of course, in my own education and in teaching it to my students, but I had never actually considered what the scientific process is, and had never actively applied it to anything, nor considered why it is a decent tool.

As a youth I had read as many Consumer Reports (my dad's subsciption) as I could get my hands on, but I never questioned or analysed the process CR used. I think I read them just to look at the comparison charts and CR's conclusions.

I don't think I would have been attracted to a marketed Skepticism. I find marketed religions repulsive (Latterday Saints, Kaballah, JW, evangelism, AmWay...:D ). I don't think Skepticsm would have been attractive to me if it was, and I may have avoided it as I avoid a lot of other things that are marketed. I am inclined to favour free enterprise and am not against the so-called " free-market of ideas", but I find a most marketing tactics tasteless, less than truthful, innacurate, promote fear, and are not a good source of information.


As for others in my region, several individuals consider themselves fortunate to have stumbled onto inquiry. That may not be everyone's experience in the region I live, but there are sure enough anecdotes repeated over and over on how individuals stumbled onto inquiry. I know, I know, anecdotes are not good evidence, so take it or leave it.

I just think when these people and myself stumbled onto inquiry, we didn't buy into it like it was a product. I doubt marketing would edify falsification, verification, and replication. Reasoning through and examiniing the inquiry process resulted in these few individuals accepting it as a tool for testing ideas.
 
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