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How do you interpret this quote?

I'm pretty sure you see deep hidden messages and secret warnings in a "I hate Mondays" Garfield comic.

You mean you didn't know that the "I hate Mondays" Garfields are code for "The Rothchilds control everything?"

Similarly the ones about lasagna are all about Skull & Bones.

None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.

Is it not worse to be free but erroneously believe you are enslaved?
 
Woodrow Wilson said:
'Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U. S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."


It sounds like Wilson is talking (second-hand) of the power of consensus evolution in self-organized distributed dynamical networks. In this particular case, markets.

Of course, there was little understanding at that time of the nature of dynamical systems (for instance, the ability of such systems to generate complex and unpredictable behavior even if each node is acting on very simple and easily understood rules), so it's understandable that the "big men" would mistake these effects as acts of will by an invisible, unpredictable, and yet pervasively influential person or group.

Look who was telling Wilson this. "The biggest men in... commerce and manufacturing." In other words, the very people who would have wanted to be able to perpetrate exactly the kind of conspiracy to control the economy that you're suggesting exists, and who according to the economic theories of the time should have been able to. Yet they found they could not. Naturally some of them would conclude "there must be an even bigger fish out there thwarting our plans." They were wrong, in exactly the same way that stone age men hearing thunder, and concluding that angry sky gods (whom likewise few would dare condemn above their breath) were responsible, were wrong.

Today, dynamical systems theory is beginning to explain exactly how and why they were wrong.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
TLB, you are the one who has contributed nothing since the OP. what the heck are you trying to argue?
 
Post and run by TLB. What cowardly behavior. Sheesh.

Oh well, he didn't exactly raise the tone of the place.
 
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.
Is it not worse to be free but erroneously believe you are enslaved?


Yeah, see... How would one know that they are truly free, Tippit? If it's not possible, then your little dropping of pseudo-wisdom only serves to shackle the mind of anyone that takes it to heart.
 
In 1912, Woodrow Wilson made the following quote:

Originally Posted by Woodrow Wilson
'Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U. S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."



What power, in your opinion, was Wilson talking about?

I finally had the chance to read the whole book The New Freedom, available here: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14811.

In the preface, Wilson explains that it isn't his own book but rather a collection of his speeches put together and published by someone else. The context of the quote is within a speech about the trusts.

There are over a dozen speeches collected in The New Freedom, and the content and style are distinctly late nineteenth-century. Wilson worries about the changed relationship between the worker and the capitalist, similar to any garden variety liberal (in the 19th century sense) of his time. He quotes Gladstone in one of the speeches.

The sense you get is that Wilson is about 40 years too late to be considered a radical and many years too early to be considered a modern politician. He refers, literally, to "crackers" in Florida and "******* in the woodpile" in another speech. None of this would be considered liberal these days but it was at the time. Recall that DW Griffith's motion picture of the same era demonstrated that the KKK was the true protector of American virtue and his production was generally well received at the time.

Wilson displays further liberalism (hardly naivety as is commonly supposed) when decrying the tariff. He was about 20 years too late for that, since the USA became a net exporter in the final decade of the nineteenth-century. However, American producers tried vainly to maintain tariffs well after their purposes were accomplished. He says that the tariffs were a tax by the monopolists and he is right about that. When American comparative advantage in industries such as steel production were already proved, there was no sense in maintaining a tariff on steel imports.

When you consider how recently the science of economics had been developed (it was called Political Economy at the time) or that Thorstein Veblen had only recently published his critiques, Wilson's perspective was probably considered cutting edge at the time that he wrote and spoke.

You will find, in the writings of any democratic politicians of the early twentieth century, quotes similar to those in Wilson's speeches. As politics follows reality, the new forms of capitalism, banking, and corporate structures came before any attempts to understand their impact in a world in which private property and private initiative had only just come into existence.

I encourage people who are interested in the era to read Barbara Tuchman's The Proud Tower. It's hard for us to imagine, but the leading intellectuals and politicians of the turn of the twentieth century figured that they had already ascended to the pinnacle of human accomplishment. Economics had scarcely been invented as a science. Those of us who are accountants wouldn't even recognise the classifications they used back then.

Moreover, this era of liberalism, embodied in Wilson and Gladstone, is not quite the Nirvana promised by libertarians. Read Wilson's speeches and you will find a lot of problems he inherited from the 19th Century and tried to address in the best way that he could.
 
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Eeesh.

Did you know that one of the quotes in your sig line is a joke that Mr Bernanke told at Milton Friedman's birthday party?

What is so funny about the Great Depression I wonder?

Funny like Bush's attempt at comedy here:

"Those WMD's have to be somewhere?"

 
What is so funny about the Great Depression I wonder?

You should read the text of his whole speech. Bernanke told the joke at the end of a long homage to the birthday boy.

If you wanted to stay on topic you might comment on my review of Wilson's book instead.
 
In 1912, Woodrow Wilson made the following quote:

What power, in your opinion, was Wilson talking about?

In 1912? How in the world could anyone know who the heck he was talking about?

The Communists?

The Catholic Church?

Could be anyone.
 
In 1912? How in the world could anyone know who the heck he was talking about?

The Communists?

The Catholic Church?

Could be anyone.
I read the book and showed you where you can find it for free, parky. I also set both the quotation and the book into context.

The mystery is solved.
 

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