How do you guys do it?

slant,

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”).
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Who says we do? Like Phil, I do not "avoid that nasty feeling of existential terror". Death, nonexistence, and my vulnerability to chance events, all scare the crap out of me.

But then again, so do spiders.

Life is full of irrational fears. Part of being a mature, functional human being is learning to face those fears, deal with them, and get on with your life.


Dr. Stupid
 
I don't really suffer "existential terror." I listen to my boyfriend's heartbeat some nights and think on how that's simply a muscle that's sending blood to everywhere else and how it's surrounded by other functioning organs all working and kept in a tightly packed case of bone and muscle and even if we are just meatsacks, that's really neat how it all works together. I watch something like The Elegant Universe and I marvel at the four forces, at particle physics, and how fundamentally neat the universe is.

I see myself as being surrounded by a lot of niftiness, not an empty, cold, clockwork world.

Except for slugs and roaches of course. Also, elevators.
 
We live without fear of an angered deity.

We try to enjoy life as much as we can, and we have no obligation to feel guilty about that.

We are able to provide our lives a meaning and or a purpose of our own.

To achieve hapiness, to grow a family, and contribute to the continuation and improvment of our species.

Don´t you think these purposes are noble enough?
 
P.S.A. said:
You are assuming atheists have this feeling, but religious people do not. The reality is everyone has it at some point; it's an inherant trait in anything which is able to predict the future. The difference between people is the coping mechanism by which they outweigh that feeling... and that can be anything which works, anything which gives meaning to existance. And that doesn't have to be God; it's just that God works for some people, where as all the things you disparge works for others.
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Most excellent. I agree.

Personally, I'm rather at peace with my finite existence. I'd like to live forever in some paradise where I can be with every good person who's ever lived and we never get bored and everything's groovy, but I'd also like to win this weeks lottery and have a giant mutant ant to ride around on, but it's just not gonna happen. So I'm happy with what I have. It's a glass half full philosophy for me.

Could be worse. Imagine if H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos were what's waiting for us! :eek:
 
Hi Slant, I'm new here myself.

Through my profession, I work with people who are terminally ill and have to think about the meaning of life every day. As part of learning about my job I spent a lot of time studying different religions and attending religious services.

Never have I felt so much anxiety as when I've tried to embrace religion. I can't stand being told that I'm a sinner who is going to hell and that everything in my life is "part of God's plan". Knowing that all of your actions could lead to failure based on God's whim or doom you to an eternity in hell is enough to fill anyone with existential terror. I prefer thinking that I have control over my own actions. I don't like having to come up with religious rationalizations for why I'm suffering or why thousands of people are killed in a tsunami.

I'm sorry to give you the stock answer of "I create my own meaning", but that is the truth. I have honestly asked myself if I would live my life differently if God existed and other than adding worship to my life, I can honestly say, I wouldn't change anything.
 
Slant, spectacle, Perpetual Notion (great handle btw)-

Welcome, I hope you enjoy the forum and learn as much as I have.

Did you feel "Clausical terror” when you learned there was no Santa Clause? Did you stay awake at night and wonder if you should bother being good this year because Santa wouldn't "really" find out if you were bad?

I'm just bustin'. You're from the city, I couldn't help it. In all honesty I have felt exactly what you described. But then when I thought about it the feeling was really comparable to the ridiculous Santa parallel. If you "knew" today that the world would blow up 10 years after you die would you live your life any different? How? Why? Would it matter? If not then don't worry about it.
 
slant said:
(Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”).
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I've always found beauty and fascination in the most short-lived and tenuous of things. Have you ever known someone who seemed to live more intensely and richly than normal people, and who ended up living less time as well? It's funny how often that happens.

One of my favorite hobbies is origami, an art form which by its very nature is extremely temporary.

Why does "mortal" have to equal "meaningless" or "pointless"?

I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.
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So what you have is your time on earth, the people you love, the things you will learn, the places you will travel. You have it in your own power to bestow those things with meaning. That's a lot of power. Not only that, you have the chance to leave a mark, to be remembered by other people, to have made your corner of the world a little better. What could be more meaningful than that?

I actually have difficulty comprehending the concept of "existential terror at the vastness of the universe". More than difficulty, I honestly can't figure out what the terrifying part is supposed to be. Life is wonderful. The universe is wonderful. The vastness means that there is literally limit to the marvels to be discovered. It's like all of life is an endless candy store. Why is that terrifying?
 
Gulliamo said:
If you "knew" today that the world would blow up 10 years after you die would you live your life any different?
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Hell yeah! First, I'd let everyone else know that my death would start the ten year fuse to world destruction. I would then mention I was so unhappy at my lack of material goods that I sometimes flirt with the idea of suicide. Then I'd say "hint, hint".

I'd spend my life holding the world hostage, enjoying the best material goods and entertainments a terrified planet can provide, as well as being the beneficiary of the frantic efforts of all the worlds medical geniuses to find a way to prolong my life. And when I finally died, at an extreme old age, surrounded by lovers and monkeys and piles of books and jewels and video games in my palatial mansion built entirely of golden Legos, I'd be the most mourned person in the history of Planet Monkey, which is what I would have made everyone rename Earth.
 
slant said:
What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”).
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My life hasn't substantively changed since I stopped believing in god. There are things that I miss and I think the idea of god provided some comfort and hope when things were difficult but it isn't at all necessary to a happy life. I don't miss church as much as I used to. I complained on this forum a couple of times that Church was important to me and I wanted some of the good aspects back. However I personally would rather not believe in a lie to be comforted. I prefer the truth. In time you don't need the crutch so much. As far as the next life I never really wanted to live forever. It sounds boring to me. To be honest this might just be a problem with my imagination but I can honestly say right now if I were given an opportunity to either live forever with no chance of ending my existence or choosing to die a natural death after a long life then I would choose mortality.
 
Atheist life meaningless?!?

Quite the opposite. Theist life is meaningless.

Children. I know that part of me will continue as part of them.

I also know that there is a chance that a small part of me may continue to the end of humanity.

Theists have none of that.

No belief in the science that tells me that my genes will continue with my children.

No belief that part of me may be part of what humanity ultimately evolves into.

For a theist, once you are dead you children can easily go to hell. Literally in many theist minds. If you are in your heaven you can never have any impact of the life of your child when you are dead.

Because of evidence:

I know as a certainty, my children (and I know they are mine through science) have my genes and none of their future actions can change that fact.

I know that part of me will continue having an impact on the world after my death through my genes.

Theist believe they have no impact on our world after they die.

That is the most pathetic and empty of thoughts and I will have no truck with it.

To spend eternity groveling at the feet of a petulant and vindictive deity that is so stupid that he doesn't even know the shape of the world that he claims to have made is the most unpleasant of thoughts and the most ridiculous of fairy tales.

My understanding is like science. Nothing is certain, and no idea is unchangeable. The adventure of life is finding out.

Theists have none of that.

My life is short and I have little of it left as I am sick.

It is a wonderful life and I intend on spending the rest of it believing in people and the wonders they can achieve.

Not believing in fairy tales to the detriment of humanity.
 
slant said:
What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.
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Why do you assume that acknowledgement of reality causes terror and anxiety? There are lots of other possibilities.

Is fear of thinking clearly about how life and death works why there are so many creationists and other nimrods? We all live for a while, then we all die. This is known. This has been observed. Anything beyond death is not known. Wishing for something beyond death can be amusing for a while, maybe even a little comforting, but is about as productive as watching game shows on TV. We are all just 'short-lived meatsacks' . Make the best of it, and stop whining.
 
My Uncle Charley died some 35 years ago. He did not go to heaven or to hell, he died and was buried in the ground. Does that mean his life was meaningless? Not to me. His loving and carring and humour and direction live on in me every day.

I have a duty, passed on from him, to do the things that he taught me, to pass these things on to my nieces and nephews.

If you cannot see the meaningfulness of this man's life, if you see it only as an empty existance, than more is the pity for you. Life is only here for a brief moment. Taste it, drink it, love it and let it love you. Take from those that came before, add to it your own unique blend and pass it along to those that come after you.
 
Another hit and run poster?

Oh well...

slant said:
What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” *sniiip*
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How should possible existential terror make us believe? Unlike some people, we are the type who don't think reality changes just because we want it to.

If you are on a boat and it starts leaking, will your terror of sinking induce you to believe that it has not sprung a leak?

If yes, do you think that will prevent the boat from sinking?

Now, for the record, I am not at all unpleased with life, but even if I did think it was terrible, would it be any less terrible by my electing to believe in a higher purpose?

We do not disbelieve in a higher meaning because we do not want a higher meaning to exist. Many of us think it would be wonderful if there was. We disbelieve because we see no evidence of a higher meaning.

Hans
 
I am not an atheist, I believe we were created but despite what most religious people believe even if we were created is a fact this doesn't automatically mean there is an afterlife or that even if there is, I will be there in a form this me would remember or recognize. I believe it is impossible to know. Heinlein said soon enough we will know so why fret about it?

Do I wish things were different? Certainly but it gives me no comfort to believe in delusions. I would rather live in reality no matter how stark it is than in the land of unicorns no matter how pleasant it might look from the outside.

If I knew for certain suddenly there either was or wasn't an afterlife and my life would change one iota afterward then my current morality is crap. It doesn't make any difference.
 
Most of what I believe about the so-called "meaning of life" has already been brought up by my fellow unbelievers. A person who has to rely on the "something greater than ourselves" is a neurotic person indeed with no real self-esteem or ambition.

As for the finality of life: Yes, the prospect of what lies on the shores of the "undiscovered country" is scary, but so are all unknowns. Maybe I'll find some afterlife, be reincarnated into a new form, or just experience non-existence when my brain rots away in an overpriced pine box. I don't know. No one does. However, that doesn't mean I'm not going to throw away my will and my ability to reason by believing in some "God" just to gain some illusionary comfort.

Teller, of Penn & Teller fame said it best: "Atheists do look for answers to existence itself. They just don't make them up."

No amount of prayer or belief is going to change reality. The irrationality, bigotry, and willful ignorance that comes with religion (e.g. 1inChrist, Rouser2, Robertson, Fawell, Dubbya) is far too great a price to pay for the "hope" it claims to offer.
 
slant said:
I imagine the responses I’m going to get will be along the lines of living in the moment or to immerse oneself with the people and things one cares for. However, I don’t really think this is dealing with these sorts of thoughts; it just seems like shooing them away whenever they pop into your head.

I’ve been meaning to ask this question for some time, but I’ve hesitated because I thought many of you would somehow get defensive or offended over your choice of lifestyle, but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.
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Shooing them away whenever they pop into my head is my chosen approach. When that doesn't work I try humbly accepting reality. When that doesn't work I have a touch of depression.

But this has nothing to do with my "choice of lifestyle". My atheism and lack of belief in a underlying 'meaning' to human existence, is a consequence of my life and thoughts up to this point, and I doubt I would be able to turn on "belief" even if I tried. Theism is irrational.
 
The reason that I turned from religion was the idea that without God man is nothing i.e. a "meatsack". This is such a nihilistic view which doesn't acknowledge the remarkable fact that we are the only creatures on the planet and so far as we know at this point, the on ones in the infinite universe, capable of rational thought.

We have created art, music, literature, systems of justice and government. We are capable of forming loving relationships with others. Is God necessary for this? Imagine for a moment that God doesn't exist; does all the art, literature, etc. in the world that man has created suddenly become meaningless? Do you suddenly love your family and friends less?

What about the natural world? Think of the spot you love being in most in all the world. If God doesn't exist, is it total garbage now?

There is meaning and beauty all around us. If you need God to provide comfort in difficult times or alleviate your anxiety about what will happen after you die, I can understand that. I can't understand looking at civilization and the natural world and saying that it is worthless without God pulling the strings.
 
I've always said that I might very well embrace God on my deathbed. Not because I'll actually believe in him, but because I'll be scared and desperate.
Which is basically what I think most theist belief comes down to. The idea of enternal cessation of life after death is somewhat horrific to fathom (I least I think so). So, God was created as a way to deal with this unsettling prospect. There are days I wish I could take the easy route and turn myself over to supernatural belief and find comfort in that, but it just isn't possible. It would be a denial of my actual belief system, which I came to after a lot of soul searching and exploration.

But, the last thing I'm going to do is decide life is pointless and just curl up in a ball in the corner and stop living. The reality behind what happens when you die is not going to change regardless of what I believe or don't believe. It is what it is. We just have no way of knowing what it is.
So, in the meantime we are all left with the same mission. To live. It is our sole purpose. Death will take care of itself.
 
KelvinG said:
I've always said that I might very well embrace God on my deathbed. Not because I'll actually believe in him, but because I'll be scared and desperate.
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'There are no atheists in foxholes' isn't an argument
against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes.'
[James Morrow]
 
Pahansiri said:
'There are no atheists in foxholes' isn't an argument
against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes.'
[James Morrow]
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:D Nice! I've never heard that one before. It pretty much sums it up for me.
 
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