How do you guys do it?

[arthwollipot]

Apparently most of what was preached about God's love was only to be applied to other Christians. *shrug*

This was how I experienced it. My new "friends" in the church did everything they could to estrange me from my non-church friends. It is a measure of what good friends they were when I left the church and regained my old friends.

 

[Beerina]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror”

...

I’d appreciate any earnest replies to this question.

Or smart-ass ones, whichever you think are appropriate.

What I want to know is what is actually meaningful about a religious person's life?

- You are saved from (nothingness, or a lake of lava) because you obeyed commands from some God.

Nothing special about that in any moral sense.

- You are rewarded with a pleasant Heaven, where praising God 24 hours a day is evidently more pleasing than, say, ejaculating in your friend's mom when you were just 14.

- You have lived this life of purpose, witnessing for Christ by example of doing good works, and you are rewarded by being in a place where the skill of doing good works is useless.

- You help others, especially the poor and sick and old and orphans and whatnot, because God wants you to. Unfortunately, God could do so, and with infinitely less effort than you. This makes a mockery out of a meaningful life -- it is the utter definition of a collosal waste of time to do something when there is some other easier, more efficient way to do it, but someone doesn't want to because they want YOU to do it. Think it's about God teaching you to be caring and a hard worker? See previous point re: rewarded by life in a heaven where these skills are useless.

 

[billydkid]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

I imagine the responses I’m going to get will be along the lines of living in the moment or to immerse oneself with the people and things one cares for. However, I don’t really think this is dealing with these sorts of thoughts; it just seems like shooing them away whenever they pop into your head.

I’ve been meaning to ask this question for some time, but I’ve hesitated because I thought many of you would somehow get defensive or offended over your choice of lifestyle, but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.

I’d appreciate any earnest replies to this question.

Or smart-ass ones, whichever you think are appropriate.

Well, you have to remember that religions and God's are merely inventions of human beings. And the comfort derived is purely illusion - one is being comforted by a mythology invented by other people and not by god himself. You can just as easily invent your own personal mythology which might well be more comforting and humane than any spoonfed to you by society. Why would a mythology you know is contrived by other men be any more comforting than no mythology at all? If you take the leap you will find there is nothing to be afraid of at all. And security you found in religion was pure illusion.

 

[Dancing David]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

I imagine the responses I’m going to get will be along the lines of living in the moment or to immerse oneself with the people and things one cares for. However, I don’t really think this is dealing with these sorts of thoughts; it just seems like shooing them away whenever they pop into your head.

I’ve been meaning to ask this question for some time, but I’ve hesitated because I thought many of you would somehow get defensive or offended over your choice of lifestyle, but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.

I’d appreciate any earnest replies to this question.

Or smart-ass ones, whichever you think are appropriate.

Why should there be grand meaning in life.

The simple pleasures are the best.

Eat, love, enjoy, help those you can and protect the weak.

The only point that I can make is this:

There are plenty of people who believe that life has a higher meaning, they don't seem to be any happier or content than those who don't. They seem to suffer as much as those who don't.

If there is a higher purpose, then why rape, torture and starvattion?

 

[Dancing David]

Listen the reason I’m asking these kinds of questions is so that I can figure out whether or not, a) I see the world as most of you do, it’s just from a glass-half-empty angle meaning I’m a miserable tool (which I can deal with), or b) there is some kind of critical element I’m missing which keeps me from seeing things in a more positive light (in which case, I’d like to know what it is).

I am glad to have a glass.

I prefer water over urine.

 

[joyrex]

Re: Re: How do you guys do it?

There are plenty of people who believe that life has a higher meaning, they don't seem to be any happier or content than those who don't.

The enlightened ones seem to be, or at least I've been told they are. Just a few people tho, out of the billions. (Although it isn't necessarily about belief, just practise.)

 

[Ralph]

I post/lurk on a variety of different boards besides the JREF.

A weight lifting forum,some home-improvement & woodworking forums--guitar forums--a handgun forum--and once-in awhile---the Rapture Ready forum.

One thing that really stands out over there---as compared with the very mixed bag of the other forums I frequent---is the amount of sadness,depression, and outright pyschosis you see with people who "are with God".

I don't envy at all people who seem to be absolutely salivating at the prospect of sitting up in heaven like it's some kind of sports stadium and watching people (whose only "sin" was to not think as they do) be tortured.

I don't envy a woman who suffers mentally & even physically in an abusive marriage because she believes that's Gods will.

I don't envy people who are struggling financially to the point where they can't even meet basic food & housing expenses that feel they must give 10% of every dollar they make to the church.
(like Mr Carlin said...."God always seems to need money".

I don't envy people who are in constant conflict over the fact that they whack off sometimes---even though all other normal outlets are denied them.


You get the sense that the overwhelming emotion in these peoples lives are fear & guilt---not peace & love.

If that's what having God on your side is about----I want no part of it.

 

[Glacian]

If the truth brings about anxiety, that's too damn bad for me. I'm not going to willingly deceive myself into believing nonsense merely because it makes me feel better. If I did that, why stop with being a Christian? I may as well believe that I am the greatest person on earth, and that I am the most handsome, and that everyone loves me. I can believe I am immortal, and immensely wealthy, and no matter WHAT I do I will always live in eternal bliss.

Why bother with all the nonsense of religion when you can come up with your own nonsense that's even better?

I value truth more than I value deceiving myself for a contrived "peace of mind" - if you don't, by all means, go ahead and delude yourself and die that way.

They say ignorance is bliss.

 

[Glacian]

After reading some of the other posts I felt like adding more. I also agree with those who reject the premise. When I believed in God the only other "purpose" I had in life was to do what God wanted to get to heaven. It turns out that purpose isn't even real. Why focus on an impossible goal? Is that really a "purpose"? I don't think so. So I too reject your entire premise that my life is "meaningless". I do not have to live forever and God does not have to exist for life to have meaning. I've never seen any sort of justification for either of those. I'm content with not existing some day - more so because I know it's true.

A lot of theists seem to recognize the nihilism Nietzsche spoke of in his philosophy. Without the blanket of religion, what do you have? Many would tell you nothing - life has no purpose, and no meaning.

They're all cop outs who are afraid of letting go of their blanky. Life has whatever meaning you give to it. You may not find an existentialist approach satisfying, but i do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_dead

Check that out.

 

[pgwenthold]

I post/lurk on a variety of different boards besides the JREF.

A weight lifting forum,some home-improvement & woodworking forums--guitar forums--a handgun forum--and once-in awhile---the Rapture Ready forum.

One thing that really stands out over there---as compared with the very mixed bag of the other forums I frequent---is the amount of sadness,depression, and outright pyschosis you see with people who "are with God".

I don't envy at all people who seem to be absolutely salivating at the prospect of sitting up in heaven like it's some kind of sports stadium and watching people (whose only "sin" was to not think as they do) be tortured.

I don't envy a woman who suffers mentally & even physically in an abusive marriage because she believes that's Gods will.

I don't envy people who are struggling financially to the point where they can't even meet basic food & housing expenses that feel they must give 10% of every dollar they make to the church.
(like Mr Carlin said...."God always seems to need money".

I don't envy people who are in constant conflict over the fact that they whack off sometimes---even though all other normal outlets are denied them.


You get the sense that the overwhelming emotion in these peoples lives are fear & guilt---not peace & love.

If that's what having God on your side is about----I want no part of it.

I will note, however, that this is who some preachers prey upon. I have related the story before of the church my sister-in-law attends. I went to service with her family once. All the guy could talk about was about how life can be so terrible, and when things seem hopeless, God will be there to help you through the bad times, and God is the cure for the sadness in your life.

Throughout the whole thing, all I could think was, what does this have to do with me? What if you aren't all that sad? What if you are happy with life? What if things aren't terrible or hopeless?

Apparently there are enough people in the world who feel that to make it worthwhile, I guess. Personally, I'd like to hear them focus on what's good in your life instead of constantly bemoaning how bad it is. In the relative scheme of things? I think most people have it a lot better than they think.

I was expecting the final hymn to be that song from Hee Haw:

Gloom, dispair, and agony on me (whoaaaaa!)
Deep, dark depression. Excessive misery (whoaaaa!)
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all (whoaaa!)
Gloom, dispair, and agony on me...

 

[Ralph]

I will note, however, that this is who some preachers prey upon. I have related the story before of the church my sister-in-law attends. I went to service with her family once. All the guy could talk about was about how life can be so terrible, and when things seem hopeless, God will be there to help you through the bad times, and God is the cure for the sadness in your life.

Throughout the whole thing, all I could think was, what does this have to do with me? What if you aren't all that sad? What if you are happy with life? What if things aren't terrible or hopeless?




Ever notice how so many "spiritual" people will insist---that you're not happy if you don't have some kind of spiritual belief as part of your life.


I knew a man who was allways telling me how unhappy I was---I just didn't realize it.

I have a good marriage--good kids---a good job-----my health----dammit---I'm enjoying life------don't tell me I'm not...

 

[clarsct]

How do you guys do it?


Hanging from the Chandelier!

oh...umm...erm...sorry


Heh heh, well, now that you mention it, I do just fine. I find it interesting that people tend to look at someone through their own eyes. Take, well, Boo, for instance, on account she has a small and easy to type name. Many people could say 'If I were Boo, I would.......{fill in blank}' They see Boo through their OWN eyes, not through Boo's eyes. And so, they try to guess what Boo thinks using their own mental yardstick, not the yardstick Boo would use. I see this leading people into trouble on a continuing basis. A theist weighs us on the scales of their own terror. They judge by what THEY would feel, not realizing how freeing it can be to say 'No God is the master of my destiny. I am responsible for all that I do. Anything that happens to me, I have had a hand in, one way or another, for it matters less what is done to me than what I do about what is done to me. I am my own person, for better or for worse.'

Terror is what religion sells. Terror, fear, and insecurity. What amazes me is that people buy.

Apologies to Boo.