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How do we explain ghosts?

Czarcasm said:
Did this happen directly to this supposedly reliable source, or was it heard by this supposedly reliable source? If it happened directly to this source, then please give us the details(who, where, when).
Without details, all I can say is "Thanks for the story".
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It was told to me by one of the police officers who was there. I don't see how giving you location and when would make any difference.
 
Pixel42 said:
This does not follow. We know of many ways in which sane, rational people can be fooled into thinking they interacted with people who weren't actually there. Examples have been given in this thread.
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The ghost stories that I find convincing are those where there is no reason for the person who sees the ghost to think there is a ghost.

The police officers thought that they were seeing someone else in the house. The other sightings were similar, whereby someone interacted with another who it was only after the sighting, they realised it was not another person.

In one instance a church minister reacted to seeing a female in a library and a dropped piece of paper. In the other a male staying with friends, moved out the room he was sleeping in at the request of a female and it was only the next day that it was realised, no such female was staying in the house that night.

None are people going to spooky places looking for ghosts or inclined to believe in that sort of thing.
 
Nessie said:
The ghost stories that I find convincing are those where there is no reason for the person who sees the ghost to think there is a ghost.
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What possible difference does this make? The circumstances in which people can believe they are interacting with someone who it turns out isn't actually there are not influenced by when the idea it might be/have been a ghost occurs to them.
 
(a) that list does not claim to be exhaustive (in fact it's explicitly stated that there are other possibilities) and (b) 7 might actually fit the bill.
 
Darat said:
Just so there is no confusion what are you claiming exists when you say ghosts exist?
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That there is such a thing as a ghost, that is independent of and not connected to the person who sees it.

I would suggest that the standard definition of a ghost, as a dead person who reappears, could be expanded to include a manifestation of someone who has not yet been born and it is some sort of fault in time, whereby something from outwith our time makes an appearance.

I clearly accept I could easily be wrong. But there is witness evidence for ghosts that is pretty compelling there is something going on, that we really have no idea how it happens.
 
Pixel42 said:
(a) that list does not claim to be exhaustive (in fact it's explicitly stated that there are other possibilities) and (b) 7 might actually fit the bill.
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No. 7 is "7. Involuntary Neurological Response to Latent Stimulus: Putting this into English; you have 5 senses that are much more sensitive than we expect. Our 5 senses work in concert to give our brain information about our immediate surroundings. Sometimes this information is inaccurate and can put pictures or sounds in our heads that are not there. A faint change in room temperature, humidity, a faint odor, or a familiar sound can light up parts of your brain."

The ghosts stories that make me sure there is something actually out there and it is not our senses include this one which a friend related about her youth.

Her family lived in a large house that at one time had been a nunnery. During building work, a large cupboard/box room was found. It only ever had a door into it, no window and that door had been covered over with wood panelling.

A door was reinstated and the room was used as a small study. One Christmas, due to the number of guests, a camp bed was put into the room and one of the children visiting was given the room to sleep in.

The next day the child was found asleep on a couch in another room. He said that during the night a lady had asked him to move there as he could not sleep in that room. He was unfazed, but the adults were rather put out. All denied it was any of them.

Go on a few days and new guests and this time my friend's uncle was given the room. The next morning and he was found asleep on the couch. He to related that he had been woken by a lady who had asked him to move, which he had done and like the child he was happy to comply, at the time....but now he was rather freaked out and that room was never used for anyone to sleep in again.
 
Nessie said:
No. 7 is "7. Involuntary Neurological Response to Latent Stimulus: Putting this into English; you have 5 senses that are much more sensitive than we expect. Our 5 senses work in concert to give our brain information about our immediate surroundings. Sometimes this information is inaccurate and can put pictures or sounds in our heads that are not there. A faint change in room temperature, humidity, a faint odor, or a familiar sound can light up parts of your brain."

The ghosts stories that make me sure there is something actually out there and it is not our senses include this one which a friend related about her youth.

Her family lived in a large house that at one time had been a nunnery. During building work, a large cupboard/box room was found. It only ever had a door into it, no window and that door had been covered over with wood panelling.

A door was reinstated and the room was used as a small study. One Christmas, due to the number of guests, a camp bed was put into the room and one of the children visiting was given the room to sleep in.

The next day the child was found asleep on a couch in another room. He said that during the night a lady had asked him to move there as he could not sleep in that room. He was unfazed, but the adults were rather put out. All denied it was any of them.

Go on a few days and new guests and this time my friend's uncle was given the room. The next morning and he was found asleep on the couch. He to related that he had been woken by a lady who had asked him to move, which he had done and like the child he was happy to comply, at the time....but now he was rather freaked out and that room was never used for anyone to sleep in again.
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We don't know what it was. So it must have been ghosts.
But have you considered aliens ? Or Jesus ? Or Morpheus (the one from Matrix)? Not so simple, ay ?
 
Dr.Sid said:
We don't know what it was. So it must have been ghosts.
But have you considered aliens ? Or Jesus ? Or Morpheus (the one from Matrix)? Not so simple, ay ?
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I think what is traditionally thought of as a ghost is the most likely explanation and they do exist, amongst many hoaxes or events that do have an explanation, such as CO induced hallucinations.
 
Nessie said:
I think what is traditionally thought of as a ghost is the most likely explanation and they do exist, amongst many hoaxes or events that do have an explanation, such as CO induced hallucinations.
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But why ? How do you distinguish between ghost, aliens, Jesus, or something you haven't even heard about ?
 
Nessie said:
I think what is traditionally thought of as a ghost is the most likely explanation and they do exist, amongst many hoaxes or events that do have an explanation, such as CO induced hallucinations.
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If ghosts really exist and your anecdote about the ghostly lady was true, then that would indicate that light bounces off of ghosts for witnesses to see them.

That means that ghosts interact with the physical world, in which case why can't we detect them?
Is it like a special pleading sort of thing.
 
Nessie said:
No. 7 is "7. Involuntary Neurological Response to Latent Stimulus: Putting this into English; you have 5 senses that are much more sensitive than we expect. Our 5 senses work in concert to give our brain information about our immediate surroundings. Sometimes this information is inaccurate and can put pictures or sounds in our heads that are not there. A faint change in room temperature, humidity, a faint odor, or a familiar sound can light up parts of your brain."

The ghosts stories that make me sure there is something actually out there and it is not our senses include this one which a friend related about her youth.

Her family lived in a large house that at one time had been a nunnery. During building work, a large cupboard/box room was found. It only ever had a door into it, no window and that door had been covered over with wood panelling.

A door was reinstated and the room was used as a small study. One Christmas, due to the number of guests, a camp bed was put into the room and one of the children visiting was given the room to sleep in.

The next day the child was found asleep on a couch in another room. He said that during the night a lady had asked him to move there as he could not sleep in that room. He was unfazed, but the adults were rather put out. All denied it was any of them.

Go on a few days and new guests and this time my friend's uncle was given the room. The next morning and he was found asleep on the couch. He to related that he had been woken by a lady who had asked him to move, which he had done and like the child he was happy to comply, at the time....but now he was rather freaked out and that room was never used for anyone to sleep in again.
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What they should have done was to test it, sleep in the room again and again and see what happens.

But no they didn't, presumably because they believed in ghosts.
 
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p0lka said:
If ghosts really exist and your anecdote about the ghostly lady was true, then that would indicate that light bounces off of ghosts for witnesses to see them.

That means that ghosts interact with the physical world, in which case why can't we detect them?
Is it like a special pleading sort of thing.
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Whom says ghost can't be detected by devices? Assuming ghosts are real.
 
Thinking about it, re: the ghostly lady post,

After hearing the couple say 'what girl', why didn't the two police immediately go follow the girl or question the couple for saying 'what girl'?

Apparently all they did was get spooked and run back to base and got a day off.

Maybe they believed in ghosts?
Maybe the whole story is bollocks?
who knows.
 
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p0lka said:
Can they be detected by devices?
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I have no idea if they can because we have no idea what the nature of a ghost is. Please don't conflate this as an endorsement ghosts are real and that I want them to be real. At most the phenomena is intriguing. The point is there's not much difference between eyeballs and engineered devices in practice. Furthermore, I can neither confirm nor exclude the possibility of such a thing.
 
Nessie said:
No. 7 is "7. Involuntary Neurological Response to Latent Stimulus: Putting this into English; you have 5 senses that are much more sensitive than we expect. Our 5 senses work in concert to give our brain information about our immediate surroundings. Sometimes this information is inaccurate and can put pictures or sounds in our heads that are not there. A faint change in room temperature, humidity, a faint odor, or a familiar sound can light up parts of your brain."

The ghosts stories that make me sure there is something actually out there and it is not our senses include this one which a friend related about her youth.

Her family lived in a large house that at one time had been a nunnery. During building work, a large cupboard/box room was found. It only ever had a door into it, no window and that door had been covered over with wood panelling.

A door was reinstated and the room was used as a small study. One Christmas, due to the number of guests, a camp bed was put into the room and one of the children visiting was given the room to sleep in.

The next day the child was found asleep on a couch in another room. He said that during the night a lady had asked him to move there as he could not sleep in that room. He was unfazed, but the adults were rather put out. All denied it was any of them.

Go on a few days and new guests and this time my friend's uncle was given the room. The next morning and he was found asleep on the couch. He to related that he had been woken by a lady who had asked him to move, which he had done and like the child he was happy to comply, at the time....but now he was rather freaked out and that room was never used for anyone to sleep in again.
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Re hilighted. Humans have at least 9 and possibly as many as 26 senses, so you are already wrong straight out of the box. Nobody credible claims a mere 5 senses. That would be idiotic. Science has long since moved beyond such an anachronistic idea.

Could you look beyond 18th century thinking please.
 
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