Homeopathic tablets

[Barbrae]

Well acording to the rules of homeopathy there isthe posibility of him provingand becoming hyperactive

Theoretically yes, but the chance of that happenin after one dose and immediately is extremely small and also was not the point of the demonstration nor would it prove what the demonstration was about.

 

[Chris Haynes]

.... Most homeopathic remedies are under 10.00 US dollars, not much of a loss if it fails. ....

24 tablets of Benadryl costs about $5 ... and it DOES work!

Both as an antihistamine and as a sleep aid (the latter being why I use more expensive antihistamines during the day)

(and the generics are even cheaper)

 

[Barbrae]

Rolfe,

The key to stopping them is to remove the customer as quickly as possible.

Seriously - the customer has a right to make their own choices.

 

[Barbrae]

24 tablets of Benadryl costs about $5 ... and it DOES work!

Both as an antihistamine and as a sleep aid (the latter being why I use more expensive antihistamines during the day)

(and the generics are even cheaper)

The point wasn't to discuss which was cheaper, but that even the most expensive homeopathic OTC are cheap.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it costs a company to produce homeopathic tablets? Assuming, of course, that they are actually starting with the correct plant or whatever, and doing the proper amount of diluting and pounding on the old leather Bible. Plus the carrier sugar pill and container it comes in.

How much profit is in little sugar pills?

 

[Chris Haynes]

The point wasn't to discuss which was cheaper, but that even the most expensive homeopathic OTC are cheap.

Even if it costs less than a tenth of the cost of Benadryl... if it doesn't work it is OVERpriced.

 

[Barbrae]

Even if it costs less than a tenth of the cost of Benadryl... if it doesn't work it is OVERpriced.

True - but isn't it the consumers right to decide for themselves whether it works for them or not? After all, there are many many many thousands of us (whether we are deluded or not) who say it does work for us.

And if you want to talk about overpriced treatment - I would LOVE to have the Thousands of dollars I spent on my conventional treatments over the years that had absolutely no effect on my disease - but since they were "proven" treatments it's okay to waste money on them I suppose.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Okay, if that is your take on it.

I just stuck with the "sleeping aid" angle. I cannot discuss your experience because you have not elaborated in detail. Though I do know that you have also been very cagey about how effective homeopathy would be for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy --- just saying it could help, but without elaboration on how or why.

But many people have been told to avoid well proven conventional treatment and used "homeopathic" stuff, sometimes to their peril. This includes bogus homeopathic vaccines.

Most of the people I know who talk about homeopathic medicines (and I was one of them) just thought it was some kind herbal remedy with actual ingredients. When we find out what it REALLY is... then it is just rediculous.

 

[Byzantine Magpie]

The point wasn't to discuss which was cheaper, but that even the most expensive homeopathic OTC are cheap.

Hang on. Now I'm really confused!

You don't mind companies selling products which aren't what they're claimed to be on the package, because if they don't work the public won't buy them.

Isn't that still deceptive or misleading? Aren't there consumer protection laws to stop companies doing that?

And haven't you (or was it Benguin?) already said that these sorts of products can't possibly work because homeopathic treatments don't work with mixed ingredients and without appropriate testing. Also, Benguin said that these are herbal treatments, not homeopathic.

So either they're incorrectly labelled as homeopathic when they're actually herbal, or they're actually homeopathic but can't possibly work in accordance with Hahnemann's rules. Yet it's still okay to sell them?

Please excuse me if I sound a bit baffled.

 

[BillHoyt]

Seriously - the customer has a right to make their own choices.

Seriously - the law intervenes whenever the choice is demonstrably fraudulent. Seriously - the law recognizes that there is no real choice when when of the products being sold can't possibly work. This principle is applied in investment scams, confidence games, pyramid schemes and sales of perpetual motion machines. Seriously - the law eventually will recognize this as one such scam.

 

[Chris Haynes]

.... Seriously - the law eventually will recognize this as one such scam.

I will be happy when the packaging laws are applied to homeopathy just like they are applied everywhere else. It would be interesting to see "Jane Public's" reaction with a label that says:

Inert Ingredients: 100.00%

Active Ingredients: 0.00 %

Right now with its limited resources the FDA can usually only go after homeopaths that go WAY beyond the normal self-limiting conditions... like a homeopathic protection against small pox:
http://www.homeowatch.org/reg/gray.html

The value of homeopathy may be in the talking the practicioners engage in. The empty remedies have nothing to do with how well it works... it is the fact that they sit and talk to the patient for a while. Just like what was noted in this study:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews&storyID=6059400

The only real value homeopaths have is that they may help folks who are afraid of the stigma attached to consulting anyone with the word "psych" in their title.

What they need to do is stay away from medical conditions which have shown to be readily treatable with real medicine, human and veternary... like diabetes, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and even hyperthyroidism in cats.

 

[Sarah-I]

HC,

'Homeopathic vaccines' are not homeopathic either.

Perhaps this discussion just demonstrates that if Jane Public wishes to use homeopathy, then she should go and see a fully qualified homeopath who will be able to take a full case and prescribe the correct remedy, which will then be homeopathic to the case.

Homeopaths are not trained as therapists either. It is quite true however that a lot of patients do derive benefit from the consultation process without even being given a remedy at the end. A study was carried out that demonstrated this. The patient was not given a remedy and did well for sometime having just undergone the consultation process. However, when they came back for a follow-up and were then given the correct remedy, they improved rapidly and were much better than when they had just undergone the consultation. This was a placebo effect from the consultation, however, when given the remedy, the patients started to improve and these improvements 'held', rather than slipping back, as had happened before when no remedy was given.

I am very lucky and fortunate that I see all these benefits in our clinic on a weekly basis.

 

[Zep]

HC,

'Homeopathic vaccines' are not homeopathic either.

Perhaps this discussion just demonstrates that if Jane Public wishes to use homeopathy, then she should go and see a fully qualified homeopath who will be able to take a full case and prescribe the correct remedy, which will then be homeopathic to the case.

Homeopaths are not trained as therapists either. It is quite true however that a lot of patients do derive benefit from the consultation process without even being given a remedy at the end. A study was carried out that demonstrated this. The patient was not given a remedy and did well for sometime having just undergone the consultation process. However, when they came back for a follow-up and were then given the correct remedy, they improved rapidly and were much better than when they had just undergone the consultation. This was a placebo effect from the consultation, however, when given the remedy, the patients started to improve and these improvements 'held', rather than slipping back, as had happened before when no remedy was given.

I am very lucky and fortunate that I see all these benefits in our clinic on a weekly basis.

Has anyone thought of not giving a remedy on the second visit too?

 

[BillHoyt]

HC,

'Homeopathic vaccines' are not homeopathic either.

Perhaps this discussion just demonstrates that if Jane Public wishes to use homeopathy, then she should go and see a fully qualified homeopath who will be able to take a full case and prescribe the correct remedy, which will then be homeopathic to the case.

Homeopaths are not trained as therapists either. It is quite true however that a lot of patients do derive benefit from the consultation process without even being given a remedy at the end. A study was carried out that demonstrated this. The patient was not given a remedy and did well for sometime having just undergone the consultation process. However, when they came back for a follow-up and were then given the correct remedy, they improved rapidly and were much better than when they had just undergone the consultation. This was a placebo effect from the consultation, however, when given the remedy, the patients started to improve and these improvements 'held', rather than slipping back, as had happened before when no remedy was given.

I am very lucky and fortunate that I see all these benefits in our clinic on a weekly basis.

How about a proper citation for that study, sarah? You know, journal, date, author, title.

 

[BillHoyt]

Right now with its limited resources the FDA can usually only go after homeopaths that go WAY beyond the normal self-limiting conditions... like a homeopathic protection against small pox:
http://www.homeowatch.org/reg/gray.html

The limited resources are only one aspect of it. I think the bigger problem is the FDA is verbotten from interfering with homeopathy by demanding the normal test protocols. Unless there is clear harm, the FDA scientiets are constrained to sitting back and screaming into their coffee mugs.

 

[Barbrae]

Okay, if that is your take on it.

I just stuck with the "sleeping aid" angle. I cannot discuss your experience because you have not elaborated in detail. Though I do know that you have also been very cagey about how effective homeopathy would be for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy --- just saying it could help, but without elaboration on how or why.

HC - oh, come on, I have not been "cagey" at all. In fact I have tried very hard to answer any question thrown my way and was honest enough to admit when I didn't know the answer or to say when it comes to homeopathy there are several things we don't know. I told you very plainly how homeopathy could possibly help based on homeopathic theory which is all I have to go on. Please don't paint me like the homeopaths you may have had experience with, it ain't fair.

I actually have elaborated in detail on my experience in past threads - you must have missed it.

 

[Barbrae]

Hang on. Now I'm really confused!

You don't mind companies selling products which aren't what they're claimed to be on the package, because if they don't work the public won't buy them.

Byzantine Magpie - the package says it is a homeopathic sleep aid, several remedies listed were indeed homeopathically prepared, even the ones that were of a low dilution were still homeopathically prepared so the packaging is correct HOWEVER, the sleep aid product is only HOMEOPATHIC TO THE CASE if one of the remedies listed is the similimum. SO, there will be folks who take the product and get no relief, there will be others who take it and find relief (though as a classical homeopath I would not recommend this). Just like conventional OTC meds have an effect on some people and not on others. Now, most classical homeopaths are'nt to kean on OTC combo remedies and I am one of them, but I still think people are basically very intelligent and if a product doesn't work - they look elsewhere (hence, why so many people are turning away from conventional medicine )

 

[Barbrae]

Hang on. Now I'm really confused!


And haven't you (or was it Benguin?) already said that these sorts of products can't possibly work because homeopathic treatments don't work with mixed ingredients and without appropriate testing. Also, Benguin said that these are herbal treatments, not homeopathic.

Please excuse me if I sound a bit baffled.

they are homeopathically prepared remedies, not necessarily homeopathic to the case.

There was no misleading in the label. It listed exactly what was in it. ANd if taken when homeopathic to the case then it would indeed work. Wanna talk about misleading labels - what about the new "migraine" pills? Advil for Migraine - Excedrin for migraine - it is the same dang thing as regular advil or regular excedrin just different packaging, what's up with that? Just a little tangent, not really questioning it.

 

[Barbrae]

Seriously - the law intervenes whenever the choice is demonstrably fraudulent. Seriously - the law recognizes that there is no real choice when when of the products being sold can't possibly work. This principle is applied in investment scams, confidence games, pyramid schemes and sales of perpetual motion machines. Seriously - the law eventually will recognize this as one such scam.

Huh, surprised the law hasn't intervened with homeopathy then cause it has been around waaay longer than those investment scams, confidence ganmes, pyramid schemes and perpetual motion machines, hasn't it? Ah well, it's probably just a matter of time. Seriously.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
Please don't paint me like the homeopaths you may have had experience with, it ain't fair.

*snip*

I second that. You have behaved sensibly. I look forward to a serious debate one day.

I think Barbrae is more or less to the JREF what I am to hpathy and otherhealth . Let's show we handle such a situation better than them.

Hans