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Homeless Solution

I find it interesting how many people believe churches are made of money. Many churches can barely pay the preacher, much less costs for putting up several homeless people. Granted there are some very wealthy churches out there, but they are probably not the ones in grand old buildings. Parishes with grand old buildings often have that building as the only fixed asset.

The church which I used to donate to gave money to food kitchens and homeless shelters, and at the same time the one paid priest could barely pay his bills and the other priests all had full time jobs outside the church.

The people belonging to a church often have access to much of its financial documents (depending on the constitution of the church). Those churches who publish the financial information to their parish give the people to vote with their feet (and donation money).

Walt
 
That's good news, the poorer the churches the better. Tax the churches!!

These houses of superstition need to vanish.
 
Churches should definitely not be tax exempt. Why are they? Religion is a luxury. It should either be eliminated completely and banned (i would favor this) or traded on the stock market just like any other corporation.
 
thaiboxerken said:
That's good news, the poorer the churches the better. Tax the churches!!

These houses of superstition need to vanish.
So its ok to tax people who live on the poverty line? All except one church that I know of in my city have very little or no funds.

One mans superstition is anothers life.
 
Please read the forum rules. Theres a bit in there about not being a jerk.
Keep a civil tongue
The administrator may, with or without warning, suspend or ban users whom he feels are acting in a manner destructive of the forum or the goals of the JREF. Simply put, Don't be a Jerk.
 

So its ok to tax people who live on the poverty line?


Yes.

All except one church that I know of in my city have very little or no funds.

That you can see. It still shouldn't exempt their business of religion from taxes.


One mans superstition is anothers life.


And it's still superstition.
 
lyghtningbyrd said:
Churches should definitely not be tax exempt. Why are they? Religion is a luxury. It should either be eliminated completely and banned (i would favor this) or traded on the stock market just like any other corporation.
You don't like freedom of religon?

Not all companies are traded on the stock market either, why force this on the church. Personally, I think that churches should follow the same rules as other not-for-profit organizations.

Walt
 
thaiboxerken said:

So its ok to tax people who live on the poverty line?


Yes.

All except one church that I know of in my city have very little or no funds.

That you can see. It still shouldn't exempt their business of religion from taxes.


One mans superstition is anothers life.


And it's still superstition.
1. What happens when you have nothing left and are forced to give more? Im sure if you were in their position then you probably wouldnt be thinking the same thing.
2. How is a church a business? Last time I checked mine they dont really operate like a business.
3. And its still life.
 
Man of jade said:

...How is a church a business? Last time I checked mine they dont really operate like a business...

Okay. How is a church like a business?

Hmm.. first let's define a business: Merriam-Webster defines it as "a usually commercial or mercantile activity engaged in as a means of livelihood."

So, according to that, its a business.

Sure, they take DONATIONS and you don't HAVE to give them money, but its still a business, because services are being exchanged for money.

My step-by-step instructions on How to Start Your Own Church:

1. Determine your financial situation. It is very important to know the limits of your own wallet before investing in a business of your own. If you are not already exceedingly wealthy, you may need to obtain a mortgage from a bank. Also, check the internet for specific funding resources for the denomination you've decided on, as well as companies that specialize in church financing. Remember: Lenders are INVESTING in you and your business and are doing so under the assumption that your church can adequately service the debt.
NOTE: With so many factors to consider when estimating a price, it is necessary to determine your own specific cost estimates. Of course a very vague ballpark figure will range anywhere from about $100,000 minimum (not likely), to millions and millions of dollars, of course most churches will fall somewhere in between these extremes.

2. Search for the perfect location. Make sure to shop around until you find the best deal in your price range. It's very important to review all factors before signing the contract. You might want to make a list of as many questions you can come up with regarding the property. (ie- What is the price per acre? Is it for sale or for lease - or is it a preexisting building to be renovated? What is the location/surrounding demographic? What are the traffic patterns of the roads nearby? What other preexisting churches may conflict with your potential customers? Can it be zoned for a church? What about the environmental favorability study and utility availability, et cetera...) You will probably need outside help from an architect during this step. He/she will help you during this and the next step:

3. Conduct a Feasibility Study. Once you've selected a piece of land or are still unsure about the location, it's time to conduct a feasibility study, as to start planning the actual building. Unless of course you are an architect (a more legitimate occupation), you're going to need assistance. This can be obtained from free-lance architects, or contracting/architecture companies (some companies specifically design and sell church plans) A pre-made church plan is going to cost between roughly $5,000 and $130,000, usually depending on amount of square footage.

4. Creating Your Master Plan. This is basically a plan for building and allowing your business to grow in predetermined phases. This will also best be accomplished with the help of an experienced architectural company, general contractor, or specifically a Master Planner.

5. Actual Construction. The Basic Chronology:

* Conceptual planning/feasibility studies: 6-12 weeks
* Preliminary design 6-12 weeks
* Working drawings 12-16 weeks
* Bidding and contractor selection 3-6 weeks
* Securing financing 3-4 weeks
* Permitting 3-8 weeks
* Construction 6-18 months

6. OK! Time to finally rack in the cash! In order to remain on good terms with your lenders, as well as um.. Jesus, it's important to form a budget and stick to it. To set a budget, think about ministry goals, then attach a cost to each ministry and department. Everyone that works for you will expect proper payment for their "job." Remember, there are alot of people working for you, depending on the size and specifications of your church. Aside from the ministry itself, if you have facilities such as a day-care center, gymnasium, kitchen, sunday school program, etc. etc., - there are alot of people to pay. But your church, like any other business, will have a lot of unexpected expenses aside from salaries and monthly lease/loan and maintanance/utility bills. With a structured and organized budget however, it is much easier to maintain the lowest overhead possible, thereby increasing your profits beyond your wildest imaginations!


Tips for Assembling and Maintaining a Proper Budget:

* Use a unified budget. This presents the common purpose for the congregation. If you have separate budgets (and books and treasurers) for Sunday school, men's groups, etc., work to make a change to a unified budget. This gives you greater control over the ministry of the church, eliminates extra charges of separate bank accounts, and simplifies annual statements. Auditors love a unified budget and it is a protection against the loss of funds.

* Strive for a line-item budget. Divide the major ministries into sections (e.g. Sunday school, Discipleship, Property), then assign line-item numbers for specific expenses (e.g. 30-6001 Sunday school curriculum). This way it is easy to see where spending occurs.

* Change your budget to operate on a fiscal year instead of on the calendar year. If your church is like most, you follow the school year calendar. Adopt a fiscal year of July 1 through June 30. This way, ministries don't have to split their budget between two calendar years. This also gives you greater oversight to the ministry for the complete program year.

* Once your church has been established for a couple of years, you can learn from your mistakes and successes. Examine and evaluate data from the previous years. See where your spending has exceeded the budgeted amount (was this due to poor planning, or cost increases?). Was under-spending due to good stewardship or neglecting part of the outreach? Ask each group to justify each budget request and evaluate the request in light of the church's overall purpose and goals for the coming year. Analyze the trends of previous years, both in giving and attendance. (If your attendance has increased only 5%, don't increase your budget 30%.)

Now you're ready to make the leap of faith into the corporate world! If just you follow the simple, step-by-step instructions, and have the determination, drive, and desire for success at your own church business, nothing can stop you from making plenty of cold, hard cash - not even that evil motherf*cker, Satan.

Good Luck and God Bless!
 

1. What happens when you have nothing left and are forced to give more? Im sure if you were in their position then you probably wouldnt be thinking the same thing.


Taxes should be a flat percentage. If you make zero, a percentage of zero would be zero. I was raised in poverty, and I never thought that paying taxes was wrong. Now that I'm no longer in poverty, I think having to pay a higher percentage while others do not pay taxes is wrong. Tax the church.


2. How is a church a business? Last time I checked mine they dont really operate like a business.


They are in the business of selling religion, hope and "salvation". Churches make money by selling lies. They should be taxed for it, at the least.


3. And its still life.


Whatever, keep living in the fantasy.
 
Did no one read my step-by-step instructions on how to start your own church business?

I spent at least half an hour typing all that up, you ingrateful f*cks... hahah

I was at least hoping to get some angry responses, gosh darnit.
 
Personally, I think that churches should follow the same rules as other not-for-profit organizations.

I agree.

I belong to a non-profit organization (badminton club), for which I pay monthly dues and in exchange receive the use of the facilites and a few services. My dues are not tax-deductible, which is just fine with me, as it is my choice to designate funds to this purpose.

However, a church-goer doing the exact same thing,(making "donations" in exchange for use of the facilites) receives a tax deduction.

As far as I know, making a general donation to the JREF is tax deductible, but paying for a tangible service from them (ie attending the Amazing Meeting) is simply a normal business transaction. (Is this accurate?)

Churches should be held to the same standard.
 
In Britain it's even worse, because whilst churches and synagogues are tax-exempt, Buddhist temples are not. They are designated as "places of entertainment", the same as bingo halls. Can anyone say, "double standard"?
 
lyghtningbyrd said:
6. OK! Time to finally rack in the cash! ...
But your church, like any other business, will have a lot of unexpected expenses aside from salaries and monthly lease/loan and maintanance/utility bills. With a structured and organized budget however, it is much easier to maintain the lowest overhead possible, thereby increasing your profits beyond your wildest imaginations!

As member of my church's vestry (read, elected lay board) I can assure you that my church (and I highly doubt any other church in our denomination) has never had any profit. We are currently operating at a $65,000 deficit. We give 20% of our income to outreach and charity projects; the rest fund salaries (no increases this year among all the staff, including clergy) as well as building maintenance, materials for ministries such as sunday school and counseling, etc. Most of the ministry at our parish is done by unpaid volunteers.

Again, generalizations are not worthy of skeptics. I am sure you were not suggesting that your formula is how churches currently operate, right? ;)

---,---'--{@
 
So your church business is running at a loss. File for bankruptcy. But you should still be taxed like every other place of entertainment.
 
Re: Re: Homeless Solution

Sherlock Holmes said:
After, or before that, ask the atheist Bill Gates for a loan.

You're only calling him atheist because you still have Windows 97
 

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