High school drug raid

[Richard G]

Schools, excepting private ones, are goverment owned, and may be searched at any time by the local jurisdiction. Individuals attending the school must give consent to be bodily searched, when there is no probable cause. Lockers and such are school property, and the school may open and search those at anytime.

This is done routinely, (and quietly) in my hometown. The cops just walk the dogs through the halls when all the students are in class, all the lockers are in the halls so its easy, end efficient. No drugs found, they leave, and know one is any wiser. If they find something in a locker, they go find the kid it belongs to, and investigate from there.

 

[Checkmite]

Saw the video. These cops were putting their guns to kids heads.

If that's true, and I were one of the accosted students, then yes, I would sue as well; and no, I wouldn't wait for the ACLU to get off their butts before initiating litigation. In fact, I would have an attorney and a case prepared, if not on the docket, before sundown the next day.

 

[jj]

It is not unusual to handcuff someone temporarily while the officer gets a situation sorted out and makes a determination if an arrest will follow. It's necessary, at times, for the protection of the officer.

Well, I'm not trying to make the law enforcement folks job harder, but it seems to me that once handcuffs are made, an irrevocable and absolute accusation of at least assault, if not worse.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Well, I'm not trying to make the law enforcement folks job harder, but it seems to me that once handcuffs are made, an irrevocable and absolute accusation of at least assault, if not worse.

The times I had to do it were usually calls like, let's say, a fight in a bar, or in the parking lot outside. You've got two or more people that were involved in a fight, with half a dozen people screaming that it was the "other" person that started it.

I'd just go ahead and cuff the participants in the fight so that they couldn't go after me, or start going after each other again. Once the situation is calmed down and you get a chance to sort out the chaos, you make your determination who you are going to arrest, then turn the other parties loose.

Domestic violence calls occasionally require this also, particularly if both parties show signs of injury.

It's really just a temporary measure that needs to be employed when you roll up on a real cluster ◊◊◊◊.

 

[LTC8K6]

What were the police told was going on at the school when they were called?

It seems that it was a student who initially reported drug sales, and the students seem to agree that there were lots of drugs at the school.

What do people think happens when the police conduct a drug investigation, anyway?

If I were a student at that school, I would have expected this sooner or later, since I would certainly have been aware of the drug dealing.

I am finding it difficult to fault the police here......

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/11/07/school.raid/

 

[Tmy]

What??! If your OK with what they did you must be one of those cop-groupies who believe the police can do no wrong.

If you want to sweepo thru and search lockers then fine. Theres no reason to have guns drawn and kids on the floor. FOr what? Soem weed and some pills? Its not like there were reports of armed students, wheres the danger?

The police talk about "drug dealers" as if there were drug kingpins wandering the school. Were talking about some pimple faced 17 yr old stoners selling weed. Talk about overkill. Now all these kids will probably go through life being all bitter and resentful to police.

 

[Bikewer]

It's quite proper to temporarily handcuff folks who you might not subsequently arrest; we do it all the time. It can keep a situation from escalating.

In this case, rather than go in whole-hog with drawn weapons and shock troops, you'd think the department involved might have done a bit of investigation beforehand.
Using students as informants is a possibility, this sort of thing has been approved by the courts. There's also the commonly-used technique of putting youthful officers or even academy recruits "in training" into the school for undercover observation.

I suppose the department in this case might have thought that going with "overwhelming force" might have served the purpose of removing any thought of resistance on the part of what might have been gang-related drug dealing....the last thing you want is a shooting situation in a school.
Still, it seems to me that standard investigative techniques could have identified the involved parties and enabled thier subsequent arrest at a location away from the school.

 

[hgc]

Re: Note this quote ...........

"The paper quoted Lt. Dave Aarons of the Goose Creek Police Department as saying that the suspected drug dealers appeared to be knowledgeable about where the school surveillance cameras were. He said he watched school surveillance tapes from four days that showed students congregating under cameras, periodically walking into a bathroom with different students and coming out moments later.

They know where the cameras are. If they stand directly under them, the camera's don't look directly down,'' Aarons told the paper."
...

Think of the implications of this. Because of the institution of the Surveillance Regime, anyone who finds themselves outside that field of surveillance becomes a suspect. It's the old what have you got to hide? conundrum. This is much more than the passive public safety mechanism that it's made out to be. This is a principal foundation of the police state reality that is evident in the video.

Another foundation of the police state is the desire by individuals with some enforcement power to enhance that power, in the name of efficiency, with no idea that they are destroying our liberty, and doing not much at all to enhance our safety. Thanks, Drug War. Soon we'll all be safe under your benevolent, spirit-crushing thumb.

 

[Tmy]

There is still nothing in the story that justified such a reaction. I'd expect more info since they are under such pressure. So far all we have is reports of drugs in the school.

Well gee with that much proof you can do this type of raid at every high school in the country.

 

[scarlet_35]

just my 2 cents on all of this. I can't help but think that what the cops did at that school will only cause the students there to resent cops even more, feeling that the cops are not there to help them but there to accuse them of things they aren't doing. Even for the students who are doing drugs, they'll feel as if they have no privacy and be angry.

seems to me there is a lack of respect for officers by many young people these days, at least in my experience with kids and they really should try to turn that around some how, get kids to trust them and feel that that police are there to help them, not try and bust them at every chance they get.

 

[AmateurScientist]

I suppose the department in this case might have thought that going with "overwhelming force" might have served the purpose of removing any thought of resistance on the part of what might have been gang-related drug dealing....the last thing you want is a shooting situation in a school.

You know, I've thought about this, and I can't think of a better way to provoke a shooting situation in a school. If there had in fact been armed drug dealers there, as the police seem to have suspected, then going in with weapons drawn is a great way to provoke a gun fight with them.

Thanks for drawing your weapons for "the kids' own safety," Mr. Police Officers. You just made it a lot more likely the dealers will carry guns and possibly use them, if they weren't already.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

just my 2 cents on all of this. I can't help but think that what the cops did at that school will only cause the students there to resent cops even more, feeling that the cops are not there to help them but there to accuse them of things they aren't doing. Even for the students who are doing drugs, they'll feel as if they have no privacy and be angry.

seems to me there is a lack of respect for officers by many young people these days, at least in my experience with kids and they really should try to turn that around some how, get kids to trust them and feel that that police are there to help them, not try and bust them at every chance they get.

True. Not to mention that I'm quite sure at least some of the students were scared to death.

Not all of them are as jaded as television and movies would leave us to believe. There still are wide-eyed innocent, naive kids in schools. Now, the very police who believed quite foolishly that it was protecting the kids has terrorized them instead.

Good work.

AS

 

[LTC8K6]

Some people here are acting as if the police were called and just showed up one day.

The raid occurred after several days of surveillance of the school.

It's too bad someone tipped the dopeheads off.

If you think high school drug dealers won't carry guns, then you are not facing reality.

If you think you can tell who is dangerous just by looking, then good luck.

If I find something in your locker, it is easy to show that anyone could have put it there. It is much better, imo, if I can find it on your person or in the bag you are carrying.

The situation is unfortunate, but I don't see any realistic way for the police to do it any other way.

 

[Tmy]

Some people here are acting as if the police were called and just showed up one day.

The raid occurred after several days of surveillance of the school.

It's too bad someone tipped the dopeheads off.

If you think high school drug dealers won't carry guns, then you are not facing reality.

If you think you can tell who is dangerous just by looking, then good luck.

If I find something in your locker, it is easy to show that anyone could have put it there. It is much better, imo, if I can find it on your person or in the bag you are carrying.

The situation is unfortunate, but I don't see any realistic way for the police to do it any other way.

WHAT!?!?!?? I think your the one being unrealistic. I went to a large suburbanish high school like this one. And I smoked alot of pot too. While drugs were easily available the school was far from scene out of Scarface. We were just kids getting stoned now and then. No guns or drug turf war.

How many times do you hear of potheads having shootouts in the hallways????

If theyre surveilence was so great they should be able to pickout and target specific students. Not come blazingin wh guns drawn like it was some kind of Columbine thing.

Ifthis is ok then every situation would be OK for cops to have guns draw. SO the next time you get pulled over for speeding Im sure you wouldnt mind laying face down on the pavement wh guns drawn on you. After all you might be an armed maniac!!!!!

 

[AmateurScientist]

Ifthis is ok then every situation would be OK for cops to have guns draw. SO the next time you get pulled over for speeding Im sure you wouldnt mind laying face down on the pavement wh guns drawn on you. After all you might be an armed maniac!!!!!

Or they might shoot your dog dead if you forget and leave your wallet on top of your car after filling up at the gas station.

(remember that incident in Tennessee a few months ago?)

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

Some people here are acting as if the police were called and just showed up one day.

The raid occurred after several days of surveillance of the school.

It's too bad someone tipped the dopeheads off.

It's too bad the totalitarian, power mad and paranoid principal called in a large police tactical unit on his own students too. Which is worse? Some stoner kids trading dope for cash at school or police anti-drug dealer storm tactics used against mere stoner kids and perfectly innocent kids alike?

No question about it.

If you think high school drug dealers won't carry guns, then you are not facing reality.

If you think you can tell who is dangerous just by looking, then good luck.

I find totalitarian and police state measures far more dangerous than any armed kids or gangs. There's no recourse against an abusive government. (voting against them doesn't work when the majority of the electorate supports their abuses--that's the tyranny of the majority Madison warned about in the Federalist Papers)

If I find something in your locker, it is easy to show that anyone could have put it there. It is much better, imo, if I can find it on your person or in the bag you are carrying.

The situation is unfortunate, but I don't see any realistic way for the police to do it any other way.

It's much better to stop worrying about an intractable situation in the first place. If kids want to use drugs, there is nothing we can do in a free society to stop that. Having the administrations and the police literally waging war on students in schools has moved us firmly into the police state, at least in public schools.

Where is the ghost of George Orwell when you need him?

AS

 

[Monketi Ghost]

The situation is unfortunate, but I don't see any realistic way for the police to do it any other way.

...No other way? The weapons must be drawn and targeted at high school students?

No other way?

The situation IS unfortunate, for all the reasons enumerated:

Putting innocent lives at risk.

Creating an environment of fear.

Instilling deep mistrust of police officers, even among those who break no laws.

I'd have had no problem with the raid, weapons holstered.

 

[Tmy]

I hate to use the "Forefathers" card but isnt this exactly the type of police action that they wanted to prevent.


(ps: Howz about a thread were we can create a political excuse deck of cards: Race Card, Forefather card, Terror card, ect..)

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Or they might shoot your dog dead if you forget and leave your wallet on top of your car after filling up at the gas station.

(remember that incident in Tennessee a few months ago?)

AS

ARRRRRRGGGG.........

Yeah, I recall that incident AS. I had a rather lengthy discussion on here with some lawyer guy from Alabama, IIRC.

But to get back to this incident.....

Lacking some new information we're not privy to, this whole thing was just wrong.

If they had surveillance info which caused them to ask the police to get involved, they should have been able to target just those kids that they suspected of drug activity. They could have been brought to the office and searched. The drug dogs could have done their sweep of lockers while everyone was in class.

I can think of about half a dozen better ways of approaching the suspected drug problems in this school.

 

[AmateurScientist]

I hate to use the "Forefathers" card but isnt this exactly the type of police action that they wanted to prevent.

Use it at will. It is very appropriate in any discussion of civil rights abuses by government.

I agree completely. This is precisely the kind of thing they had in mind when drafting and implementing the Bill of Rights.

It applies to kids too. They have no fewer rights when it comes to government action than do adults.

The fact that this happened on a public school grounds has nothing to do with it.

The abuse is in scaring all of the kids to death with the cops with drawn weapons, in surveilling everyone all the time, and in treating everyone as a suspect with metal detectors, bans on backpacks, and random or complete locker searches.

I disagree about locker searches without probable cause being within the spirit of the Fourth Amendment. I think students should have some reasonable expectation of privacy in them, despite what some modern courts might say about the issue.

AS