Guantanamo inmates commit suicide

Ziggurat said:
You point to a genuine and substantive issue. There's a balancing act that has to take place: on the one hand, it's not good to hold innocent people, but on the other hand, not only is it bad to let the guilty go, but it's ALSO bad to spend a lot of resources processing the guilty. And the terrorists know that: they know that they do us harm even by tying up cases in courts, they know it costs us a whole lot of money, and they try to do that as much as possible. Opponents of Guantanamo have been focused almost solely on the problem of holding innocents. But what about the latter problems? What happens when you willingly provide the enemy with a reward for creating exactly this sort of confusion? The enemy will create more of this sort of confusion. Encourage bad behavior, and you get more of it. And that behavior endangers innocent civilians just as much as overzealous prosecutions, if not moreso, since hiding among civilians gets those civilians killed. Even on the basis of concern for innocents abroad (and not the risk or cost to ourselves), it isn't clear that maximum possible diligence to the rights of prisoners actually provides the most protection.

So, how exactly should we balance this? That's a legitimate question, and there simply are no easy answers. But pretending like only one of those problems exists is a pretty sure-fire way to arrive at the wrong answer.
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That, however, I can agree with.
 
Belz... said:
You're claiming that those prisoners exist in some form of legal limbo that would allow the US to do whatever the hell they wanted with them.
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Not quite. My claim is that we have no treaty obligations that specify how we must treat them. But then, we don't have treaty obligations for how we treat most ordinary criminals either.

If they're POWs are some suggest, then they should be protected by the geneva convention, which, I hope, include the right to a fair trial or something.
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But there is no such requirement in the Geneva conventions, as I keep pointing out. POW's are not tried for any crimes: they are simply held prisoner. That right does not exist, and has never existed.

If they aren't, then they should be tried by a conventional court. Either way, they should have rights.
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That doesn't necessarily follow. I agree that they should have SOME rights, I just disagree that they should have more rights than POW's, or even the same rights. And since POW's are NOT entitled to trials, I see no reason to entitle these prisoners to such trials either.
 
KelvinG said:
They killed themselves as an act of warfare?

Take that USA! It'll be awhile before you recover from this devastating blow to freedom!
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Between this "People's front of Judea suicide squad" and Al-Quaeda having a formal meeting to discuss if to continue the Jihad (they voted yes), the conflict is beginning to have rather significant "Life of Brian" overtones.
 
The Pentagon identified the three as Saudi Arabians Mani Shaman Turki al-Habardi al-Utaybi, 30, and Yassar Talal al-Zharani, 22, and Ali Abdullah Ahmed of Yemen, who was 29 or 30.
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I'm just wondering if any of them DID think that they were going to be returned back to their original countries. I would imagine they would not have lived long after being returned to Saudi Arabia or Yemen. In fact, it's likely they'd have been beheaded which is a very unpleasant and dishonorable way to die I'm lead to believe (Nick Berg, Danny Perle etc.).

Perhaps they felt this was their last, best chance to do any sort of damage to the U.S.. Then try and make their case for virgins in the afterlife on the premise that their actions did harm the infidels. You know, try and cut a deal. I figure they could start with a full demand for the 72 then let Allah zionist them down to like 45 or something.
 
Skeptic said:
Between this "People's front of Judea suicide squad" and Al-Quaeda having a formal meeting to discuss if to continue the Jihad (they voted yes), the conflict is beginning to have rather significant "Life of Brian" overtones.
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Let me guess: Arlen Specter voted "Not Proven".
 
Ziggurat said:
The trouble with fighting communism is that "The Cold War" is as all-encompassing, ill-defined and un-winnable as a "war on drugs" a "war on crime" or a "war on poverty." When will the "Cold War" be won? When there isn't a single person left standing who subscribes to communist ideology?

Maybe not. Maybe it'll end when the structures that prop it up collapse, and maybe confronting it aggressively will hasten that day.
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Most likely when Saudi Arabia is under new management.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
It is up to the U.S. military to show a link between the prisoners and al Qaeda...
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Unless there were some reason to classify that information. Military justice is not the same as civilian justice, nor should it be.
 
Mycroft said:
Unless there were some reason to classify that information. Military justice is not the same as civilian justice, nor should it be.
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They can be tried in military court by officers cleared to review such classified information.
 
FreeChile said:
I don’t see how this is connected to the statements I made. Can you please clarify?
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I guess that may be true. You are repeating the common suggestion that all or most of the detainees are innocent and that only those with big gentle souls like you are capable of determining the truth and that you think all military people are sadistic nazis. What can I say?

In any case, let’s reverse your comments to see if you make any sense. Do you think that any military personnel would admit to torturing detainees or mistreating them?
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There have been some who admitted that when they were reported, but that is obviously an aberration in the mind of the gentle folk like you. I presume you are one of those who think that shouting and other psychological techniques of interrogation are torture. I even heard one interview with a released detainee who said the food was bad. No doubt there are many children in this country being tortured by having to eat cafeteria food.

I think you are a wimp who couldn't fight yourself out of a wet paper bag.
 
Mycroft said:
And you know they're not how...?
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The miltiary has no issued any statements indicating that the gitmo inmates are being tried under military justice in a timely fashion. I cannot merely assume it is being done in the absence of any indication thereof by the military, or independant verification from other sources.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
What does that have to do with the subject at hand?
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You have to question that??
You used the emotive word inhumane. You tell us why you have pity and compassion for our enemies who show none, even for their own? Is inhumane one of your code words for torture perhaps? Happy happy prisoners is what want. Love them and they will love us. ?? Am I close?
 
Elind said:
You have to question that??
You used the emotive word inhumane. You tell us why you have pity and compassion for our enemies who show none, even for their own? Is inhumane one of your code words for torture perhaps? Happy happy prisoners is what want. Love them and they will love us. ?? Am I close?
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I'll use small words so you understand.

Some of them may not be the bad guys. Until they are put on trial we don't know.
 
These terrorists are not backed by any one country. So it’s difficult to blame one. A while ago there were problems with pirates. Pirates were not beholden to any country. I say we treat terrorists, like pirates. According to international law, it’s basically; hang them where you find them.
 
The Painter said:
These terrorists are not backed by any one country. So it’s difficult to blame one. A while ago there were problems with pirates. Pirates were not beholden to any country. I say we treat terrorists, like pirates. According to international law, it’s basically; hang them where you find them.
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Let's just say I found where you lived and pointed you out to the appropriate US authorities and said to them, "Look! He's Al Quaeda! GET HIM!" Would you be likely to object at all if they strung you up to the nearest telephone pole without a by-your-leave?

C'mon. Let's be civilised, hmmm?
 
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