GSIC AUDIO

[7th sextile]

No better place,Fish!

Thanks and welcome.

 

[Gr8wight]

Re: Very Interesting

Apologies if this thread is not the correct place to post this.

Interesting DBT of the GSIC.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/12464.html

Results were pretty much what you'd expect - "At no time did we hear a difference between the treated and un-treated CD’s in each pair. They sounded exactly alike, as they had in the pre-treatment screening tests."

Fish [TM]

I read the initial post about the test, but not the rest of the thread. My opinion on this test is no different than my opinion on the impending Lost Angeles test. If the people listening do not believe at the outset that they can hear the difference between a treated and an untreated CD, then the outcome of the test is useless. Just as we believe that the effect Wellfed and others claim to hear is due to their own expectations that they will hear it, a listener that expects to not hear any effect will not.

That is why Randi has insisted in a baseline test for LA. Without that, the results are meaningless.

 

[LTC8K6]

Anyone who reads about the GSIC and how it works would be hard pressed to believe they are going to hear a difference.

 

[Gr8wight]

Anyone who reads about the GSIC and how it works would be hard pressed to believe they are going to hear a difference.

You would think so, but then again you have a skeptical mindset. Explain Wellfed. I have corresponded extensively with him. He is not a stupid person. He does, however, strongly believe that he hears a difference.

It is a shame the test with Wellfed did not happen. It would have been one of the most interesting and important tests the JREF had undertaken in years. The only one I can think of that I would class as more important is Yellow Bamboo.

 

[MRC_Hans]

You would think so, but then again you have a skeptical mindset. Explain Wellfed. I have corresponded extensively with him. He is not a stupid person. He does, however, strongly believe that he hears a difference.*snip*

Maybe he is not stupid, he certainly doesn't appear so. But that is not the same as not DOING a stupid thing.

I'm sure he believes he heard a difference, but he also admitted to such things being highly subjective. He may not have any technical insight, although I find that somewhat unforgivable for an audio reviewer, but after he had it explained to him why the function of the GSIC violated quite a number of the laws of physics, I find it to be very stupid behaviour of him not to pause and reconsider his subjective experience. Instead, he clung to his beliefs and started evasive tactics with respect to the test, even to the point of getting nasty about it. Stupid, IMHO.

Hans

 

[KRAMER]

He was much more than just nasty. He became so obsessed with insisting that the Challenge was a scam (and that Randi and I are liars) that he was eventually banned from the JREF forum, after numerous warnings which he also denied having any knowledge of. His behavior at the beginning of the process was cordial and polite, but if you look at the record of our correspondence, it turned odd, to the extreme.

Wellfed's difficulties spread much wider than his inability to accept the scientific impossibility of the vailidity of his claim. Refusal to accept reality is a sign of something much more serious than mere stupidity.

I don't think he's stupid at all.

 

[Gr8wight]

He was much more than just nasty. He became so obsessed with insisting that the Challenge was a scam (and that Randi and I are liars) that he was eventually banned from the JREF forum, after numerous warnings which he also denied having any knowledge of. His behavior at the beginning of the process was cordial and polite, but if you look at the record of our correspondence, it turned odd, to the extreme.

Wellfed's difficulties spread much wider than his inability to accept the scientific impossibility of the vailidity of his claim. Refusal to accept reality is a sign of something much more serious than mere stupidity.

I don't think he's stupid at all.

Let me be clear that I am not assigning any blame to anyone over the failure to test Wellfed. I don't see that it could have gone any other way. I am just saying that it is a shame it didn't take place.

 

[drkitten]

Let me be clear that I am not assigning any blame to anyone over the failure to test Wellfed. I don't see that it could have gone any other way. I am just saying that it is a shame it didn't take place.

I'm not sure that I see how Wellfed's failed test is any more a shame than any other of the dozens of failed tests gathering dust in the JREF filing cabinet.

 

[KRAMER]

I couldn't possibly agree more. It's a shame the GSIC claim wasn't demonstrated by an applicant who actually believes it works, though no more of a shame than the non-testing of any other Challenge applicant who backed out or was unable to agree to an acceptable test protocol.

I was very much looking forward to the Wellfed test, and I was convinced it would actually happen. There was no indication as things began that it would turn out as it did. It was a great disappointment for everyone here at the JREF. Although I'm happy to see ANY test taking place, I'm not terribly excited about the forthcoming GSIC test. It's more of an excercise than an experiment, I think...not what I would put forth as one of my greatest ideas.

I would give almost anything to know if the results of Wellfed's test (which I think we can all agree would most likely NOT have verified his claim) would have altered his opinion of the GSIC device. Based upon the numerous vanities he sought to have inserted into the protocol, I would think not, but that is only my assumption. Perhaps, seeing himself fail to demonstrate it successfully, he'd have sincerely re-thought his assertions, and reversed his opinion. Perhaps.

I'd give almost anything to KNOW.

I think I actually did ask him to what he might attribute his failure to demonstrate his claim, and he gave the usual answers -anything BUT a rational response, which would of course have to be, "Gee. I guess I was wrong."

And we DID try to find someone else (someone who actually believed the chip worked) to apply for the Challenge, and, although we did manage to engage in some email dialogs with folks who supported the device, we were not able to get any of them to respond to our invitation to apply for the Challenge and submit the GSIC to a proper test.

I agree that, without an applicant who strongly believes the chip works, the test can only mean so much. It's not the best test we could envision, but it's the best test we could arrange for, and we just have to settle for that until/unless an authentic GSIC enthusiast applies for the Challenge.

 

[LostAngeles]

So when I found out I was going to SITE, there was some discussion about doing it today after I got back.

It's a good thing we didn't and that it's not happening until August.

People are loud.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
I would give almost anything to know if the results of Wellfed's test (which I think we can all agree would most likely NOT have verified his claim) would have altered his opinion of the GSIC device. Based upon the numerous vanities he sought to have inserted into the protocol, I would think not, but that is only my assumption. Perhaps, seeing himself fail to demonstrate it successfully, he'd have sincerely re-thought his assertions, and reversed his opinion. Perhaps.

I'd give almost anything to KNOW.

*snip*

Well, I think I can tell you, although it is not a simple yes or no answer. I find it absolutly obvious that during the negotiations about the protocol, and the discussion here, it became clear to him that he would not pass the test. The nastiness came from that inner conflict of being fully aware that he could not win, and the unwillingness to give up his belief. I have stopped counting the times I have seen believers, both here and elsewhere, going nasty when their belief system was picked apart before their eyes. It is the rage and sorrow of seing something you cherish being destroyed.

So Wellfed realized he was wrong and immidiately suppressed that realization below a new layer of self-delution. If he had been able to accept he was wrong, he would have done so during the debate. He might have tried to save face by backing out mumbling about subjective experiences, but he would have backed down.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Oh, and yes, LA's test is uninteresting (sorry, LA). It changes nothing, since the skeptics will just be confirmed in what we already know, and the believers will discount it as rigged, false, or whatever.

Hans

 

[LostAngeles]

Oh, and yes, LA's test is uninteresting (sorry, LA). It changes nothing, since the skeptics will just be confirmed in what we already know, and the believers will discount it as rigged, false, or whatever.

Hans

Well HUMPH to you Mr. Hans.

We know that it doesn't change the bits, because people have tested that aspect out. We know that, well I know, that Machina Dynamics is a tad on the sketchy side. I also know that you apparently cannot buy this in any "mainstream" store such as Amazon, Best Buy, or Circuit City. I'm considering checking out some Mom 'n' Pop places in the area just out of curiosity.

So what is it? Well, it looks like a little piece of plastic wrapped in bubble wrap that I've just invested $30 or so bucks in, in the interest of getting a million dollar return. If we get a positive baseline, it's real or the power of damn-it-gimme-a-milliion is strong. If we get a negative, then it's fake or I'm a fat liar.

So no, it isn't interesting, especially from a psychological standpoint, which was key in Wellfed's, and hell, a lot of these tests if not all.

But there will be pizza.

ETA: Hans, we're skeptics. We don't know anything until we've fully tested it out.

 

[Darat]

Hi MoistTangle - I'm not going to discredit your attempt, I think you are very courageous and a very intelligent young whatever.


OK there's hardly any chance PostEngles will win but a bit of sucking up just in case she does win the million is a good investment in my books.

 

[webfusion]

You promised...

But there will be pizza.

And photos dagnab it. Don't forget the photos.
We got the kitty Saul. We got the bubble warp Magnum Protection. We didn't get Deja, yet.
Pretty please. With sugar on top.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well HUMPH to you Mr. Hans.

*snip*

ETA: Hans, we're skeptics. We don't know anything until we've fully tested it out.

Jesh, another "Mr. Hans" ..... .

Now, first of all: Wtf does ETA mean?

Certainly, any excuse for pizza, I agree.

Well, actually we cannot test everything out fully. So when somebody claims he has a flying pig, I'm perfectly happy to say "well, show me", and proceed with more useful things till such time as he does.

Maybe my position on the GSIC is colored by the fact that this is my speciality. Not audiopholly, but electronics. So, I happen to know that it would take the complete rewriting of not one but a dozen very well proven physical laws to even make the idea of it feasible, plus another half century of technological advance to implement it. In other words, flying pigs are a damn sight more likely than the GSIC.

Thus, even in the event that you or somebody else should test the thing positive, I'd say that a one in a million statistical freak is far more likely than it actually working (not to mention a f*ck up in the protocol ).

But, enjoy the pizza .

Hans

 

[LostAngeles]

ETA means "Edited to add." Even if it doesn't show that I did, I do tend to add it on.

 

[Ducky]

Jesh, another "Mr. Hans" ..... .

Now, first of all: Wtf does ETA mean?

Certainly, any excuse for pizza, I agree.

Well, actually we cannot test everything out fully. So when somebody claims he has a flying pig, I'm perfectly happy to say "well, show me", and proceed with more useful things till such time as he does.

Maybe my position on the GSIC is colored by the fact that this is my speciality. Not audiopholly, but electronics. So, I happen to know that it would take the complete rewriting of not one but a dozen very well proven physical laws to even make the idea of it feasible, plus another half century of technological advance to implement it. In other words, flying pigs are a damn sight more likely than the GSIC.

Thus, even in the event that you or somebody else should test the thing positive, I'd say that a one in a million statistical freak is far more likely than it actually working (not to mention a f*ck up in the protocol ).

But, enjoy the pizza .

Hans

I'm a recording engineer, so I share your "color" on this topic.

I am amazed the woos that believe this also believe they can buy stickers to "tune" their speakers (It wasn't engineered well enough? stop buying paper coned small voice coil crapola speakers.) and will listen to absolutely no one that is knowledgeable tell them this is crap.

Oh well, it at least gives me something to laugh at.

I wonder if the GSIC folks will be at the next NAMM? If so, I would be happy to go to Anaheim and have fun stumping the frauds...

Of course, I would imagine 90% of the people at NAMM would already know this was bunk.

 

[SezMe]

GSIC TEST

OK, here is the final announcement. LostAngeles will conduct her GSIC challenge for the $1million Saturday, August 20th at 2 pm at the Center for Inquiry West. CFIWest is located at 4773 Hollywood Blvd. Hollywood, CA 90027 Telephone: (323) 666-9797. If you southern Californians who are geographically challenged cannot figure out how to get there click on
this link.

Don't miss this chance to meet LostAngeles before she becomes FoundAngeles, puts a horrible twist in JREF's shorts, and pockets a cool mil. I mean, how much pizza can YOU consume?

Seriously, please attend this test. Support LostAngeles in her honest attempt to test the paranormal. Support her efforts to demonstrate that the JREF challenge is real, honest and straightforward. We seldom get a concrete chance to put our mouth where our thinking is.

Come. Participate. Make a difference.

 

[ohms]

Good luck to all parties with the test this weekend