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GSIC AUDIO

-42- said:
Are they?

I thought it was simply a test as of LA (who happens to not know if it works or not) could hear a difference between a treated and untreated disc at the time the test was run.

Does her application state that the device itself works and that is what she desires to be tested? Haven't seen it yet.


The tests are the same, but the starting point is different. LA is not claiming any paranormal ability. She has not tried the chip at all; has no knowledge of it. It makes her more of an unbiased tester than a paranormal claimant.
 
Gr8wight said:
The tests are the same, but the starting point is different. LA is not claiming any paranormal ability. She has not tried the chip at all; has no knowledge of it. It makes her more of an unbiased tester than a paranormal claimant.

I agree, and it's a good point. :)
 
Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

Wellfed said:
How could I withdraw a protocol that I had never agreed to?

You are going to need a great deal of luck for your deception to forever remain a mystery.

Oh, So what, your reapplication is only 6 months after your own threat (and subsequent action) of a 6 month delay from now.

Use that time to go to HS reunions and take measures to ensure proper and comfortable listening conditions (perhaps divorcing your wife, taking your dog to the pound and/or buying a new tube, gas generator or soundproofing your room with egg cartens taped to the walls)

Plus the fact that many people have pointed out even 1/30th of the time you spent on the forums could have been used to performing a simple double blind test on your own.

Give yourself lots of outs in that DBT - it doesn't matter unless you pass. If you pass then worry about adding further controls.

Anyway.... I guess this year is a no-go
 
Trolling

Be aware, Mr Anda is now trolling for attention and responses. Give him that satisfaction at your own peril.
 
-42- said:
Are they?

I thought it was simply a test as of LA (who happens to not know if it works or not) could hear a difference between a treated and untreated disc at the time the test was run.

Does her application state that the device itself works and that is what she desires to be tested? Haven't seen it yet.

It does in fact state that the device works and that is what is to be tested. IIRC, I believe I state as much.

You're damn right, I want a million bucks. BPSG's concerns about me deliberately tanking are, while valid, unwarranted.

...Wait, let me try and phrase that better.

If I was testing a product that allowed me to contact aliens for the Randi million, I would not to try to tank the test. If I were testing a crystal that allowed me to talk to my cats, I wouldn't try to tank the test. In fact, in all cases, what's more likely is that I'd end up deluding myself that it will because I want the million.

On the other hand, even if this was just for fun, and it was something that posed no harm, physical, emotional, or financial, I'd still be happy to test it open mindedly. ("Fun" is the ket word in that sentence.)

So, yeah, if the GSIC chip does work, it'll be wicked f***ing pissah. I'm not counting on it, but hey, maybe there is a really good explanation for it. That'd be even neater.
 
Just one point to clear up --

I was having a tough time getting this point cleared-up in the 'Critic' thread (since Wellfed has me on 'ignore', and also because P.T. completely derailed the thread).

The paper bag.

Right up until the Application of the original Critic was rejected, this issue kept presenting a stumbling block.

I thought a disassembled/reassembled GSIC chip would be proper to utilize, and there would be no need to encase/hide the GSIC's since the dummy and the active chip both are now visually identical.

LostAngeles, do you have in your possession two GSIC chips? If not, I am sure you can obtain the $56* (plus S&H to order them from the distributor/mfgr) by accepting PayPal payments from other forum members who might be willing to contribute some small amounts each, and provide you with a starting fund (for purchase of CD's and the required GSIC devices) and other minor conveniences you'll need (like hot delivery Pizza during the test day for the good folks of the CFI - iiG investigative staff). I already offered $5. to you personally, and all you have to do is provide an account for us to send our individual payments. None of us has to contribute a lot each, but it will quickly add up, I'm sure.

I love the idea of the car audio testing!
A closed environment, excellent surround-sound speakers, and if you play your cards right, maybe a local BMW or Jaguar dealer can be persuaded to allow you the use of a demonstrator car, provided they get to promote the test at the dealership to attract some attention and customer traffic and have the local media come by to film it!

Double-advantage: Golden Sound gets their chip some publicity (possibly negative publicity, but them's the breaks) and JREF gets some promotion, too.

C'mon, who wouldn't like to see this preliminary test on the national news? LostAngeles, you are going to get your 15 minutes of fame if you go about the negotiations in the proper way. I am sure that KRAMER will put his entire weight behind this, and Randi will, too. Don't forget, JR has quite a few very well-placed contacts in the media in Hollywood, and this just might be a test he wants to hitch his wagon to in a bigger way than you have imagined.


======================

* $56 is the calculation of one GSIC-10 chip at $16 which treats ten discs and another GSIC-30 at $40 that treats 30 discs. LostAngeles can treat 10 discs of hers, for personal use, or for her friends, and then the disc is "spent" and can be cracked open and the PCB with black dot removed, and super-glued back together.
Voila! A perfect dummy disc that cannot be discerned as a non-functional device. It's not "spent" -- it is only the empty casing!!!

=======================

Please, Lost Angeles, resolve this issue first, as it has been the number one "sticking point" all along the way:

Will JREF accept this dummy disc (a spent disc that had it's guts removed)? If so, you can have both discs openly handled and they can be placed onto the CD transport directly -- doing away with the paper bag.
 
Since I was waiting for a response on the app, I wasn't going to shell out the money just yet. I initially see a problem with a gutted GSIC, in that the GSIC makers can make some claim about "residual hyperbolic bouncing of the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish." That, and I'm in possession of several Playstation memory cards.

Since this has been accepted (and since you've asked before), I'll post the e-mail for PayPal for anyone who wants to donate. I don't see a problem with testing going forward ASAP and even if it doesn't, you all will be refunded, no problems.

plumepple (AT) hotmail.com

For the love of chicken and stars, don't e-mail me there, as it's my "dumping ground." Anyone who wants to talk with me, please, just use the methods on the forum.
 
About the 15 minutes of fame:

One of the things that unnerved me initially about having gone, "Oh me! Me! I'll do it!" was the loss of privacy. I'm a generally a private person. So unless we have really AWESOME and compelling reasons (note the plural), I don't really feel up to running the risk of having a future student go, "Hey, aren't you..."

I am the likely the only person who came to Los Angeles to remain in obscurity. :)
 
Re: Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

-42- said:
...

Anyway.... I guess this year is a no-go

October, November, and December all fall within 2005, but it seems testing is a moot point at this time. FYI, I was the only party willing to work on getting my claim tested. JREF's "my way or the highway" approach will never net a credible test.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

Wellfed said:
October, November, and December all fall within 2005, but it seems testing is a moot point at this time. FYI, I was the only party willing to work on getting my claim tested. JREF's "my way or the highway" approach will never net a credible test.

Want to place a bet on that?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

LostAngeles said:
Want to place a bet on that?
It isn't entirely impossible that Mr. Anda will accept the bet, waffle massively on the terms, and then "table" all negotiations till October.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

Vikram said:
It isn't entirely impossible that Mr. Anda will accept the bet, waffle massively on the terms, and then "table" all negotiations till October.

Yeah, well considering my "bet" is placed on the "credible" test part...:rolleyes:

No, really. We do this test. The protocol is out here, in the open. We put together a protocol that works and is scientifically sound, I win. We don't, you lose.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: GSIC AUDIO

Wellfed said:
October, November, and December all fall within 2005, but it seems testing is a moot point at this time. FYI, I was the only party willing to work on getting my claim tested. JREF's "my way or the highway" approach will never net a credible test.

You Sir, Are silly.

Don't you want to know for yourself if you are imagining your claims?

Don't you understand?

Wouldn't you like to you know if you have a "bats chance in hell" of winning $1 MILLION BUCKS? Do you really like 1:1,000,000 odds that you are deluding yourself? Why do you think they feel so confident about this?

If so you would conduct your own tests, and be like, oh yeah I slammed my DBT's - bring it on Randi!! Yes, I'm already talking to my realtor about a house in Aspen. What? I can't see the console? Who the hell cares, bring it on, I can hear the difference, schmuck, give me my million in unmarked $5 and $10s.

No, Instead you do not.

You Sir, Are silly.

You hem and haw and spend COUNTLESS HOURS RESPONDING TO NONSENSUAL **** on this forum. Gee, if you spent even frickin 1/100th of the time actually SEEING if you can do what you say you can do in your OWN DBTs, You'd have much more solid ground to stand upon than arguing whether or not your frickin tubes would blow during the test and whether or not to word that into the protocol. Give me a ****ing break.

But, By now we all know exactly why you have not done the tests on your own. Because you doubt your ability and have come to realize you are deluding yourself. Instead of doing the respectable thing, like some of the dousers have done, step up and say, I am sorry but it appears in my DBTs and my tests that I was imagining the effect. (And I SWEAR to you this would earn you IMMENSE RESPECT) No. No, instead you stall, delay and take every effort to try the patience of JREF, to eventually they gave you what you wanted. A direct way out: YOUR CLAIM IS REJECTED.

Don't even reply or look at my posts, you disgust me.

If I even THOUGHT I had an ability like yours, I would certainly conduct my own DBT tests - even loosely constructed - and see how I did just to make sure I wasn't deluding myself. I guess you prefer to spend this time bitching.

Whatever. Bye. See you in a year.


Note: I have not responded to any of his past posts, but I have read every single one in every single thread and he got exactly what he wanted: A way out.
 
Forgive my late, late, late entrance into the foray.

Wellfed, I'd be happy to test your claim remotely, if you're game. You would need to purchase 20 blank CD's. You will burn any 10 songs you'd like onto these twenty CD's, such that each song is burned exactly once onto two CD's. Mark 10 CD's as "[Song Name] A" and 10 CD's as "[Song Name] B" (where [Song Name] refers to the name of the song on the CD's). You would also need to purchase (but not use, open, or tamper with) a GSIC device. You would package all 20 CD's in a sturdy CD casing (such that the A and B versions are next to each other!), and mail them and the GSIC device to me. (Total cost, about $30). You may wish to listen to the CD's before sending them, to ensure that all untreated versions sound alike.

With the help of a friend, and using a digital camcorder, I will make a no-cut-away video of myself opening your package, pulling out the GSIC, and placing it on top of my CD player, following these instructions from here.

Instructions: Remove the orange Intelligent Chip from its clear plastic protective case and place it on top of the CD/DVD/SACD player directly above the transport section, silver label facing up.


Then, always in full view of the camera, I would pull the CD case out of the package. I'd pull all of the CD's out of the case at once, and put them in a stack (which would be as visible as possible). I'd pull out the A and B version of the first song from the top of the stack, and hold them up for the camera, then put them both in my left hand. With my right hand, in full view of the camera, I would flip and catch a coin. If it came up heads, I would treat the "A" version of the song; if tails, I would treat the "B" version, following these instructions:

Next, insert the disc to be upgraded in the player, push "Play" and allow the disc to play for 2 seconds. The Chip can also be placed on top of the player while the disc is already playing with similar results. The upgrade takes less than 2 seconds and is permanent. Once the disc is upgraded, either remove the Intelligent Chip from the player and return it to its protective case or leave it on top of the player and insert the next disc to be upgraded into the player. Discs may be upgraded sequentially, leaving the Chip in place on the top of the player. If left on top of the player, the Chip will not function until the next disc to be upgraded is inserted in the player and played.

After treating just one version of the song, I would lift the GSIC device off of the CD player, and place it back into its protective case. I would set the device several feet away from the CD player. I would then "treat" the other version of the song (e.g. if I had flipped "heads" I would now "treat" version B, if tails; I would now "treat" version A), following the same instructions, but without the device. This protects me against any technology you might use to determine which CD had been played (call me paranoid).

After treating both, I would set both the A and B version of the first song back into the CD case.

I would repeat this demonstration for the remaining 9 pairs of CD's, placing them back into the original packaging in turn. Finally, I would seal up the package (without the used GSIC device), and stop filming.

I will send the package back to you, first class, via a trustworthy carrier which allows online tracking. I would be willing to foot the bill for this return shipping.

I will encrypt (using 156-bit 3DES) and post the video to the internet, where you and anyone else are free to download it. Alternatively, I can just post the MD5 checksum of the original video.

I will monitor the tracking online, and post here when I see that it has arrived. You will have 2 weeks from the day you receive the package to determine, for each song, whether disc A or disc B was treated. You can use any means you'd like.

You will post to this forum a list of 10 responses, indicating the song name, and whether version A or B was treated. Once you have posted this list in an unambiguous format, I will post the decryption key in this forum, as well as the un-encrypted original version of the video to the internet.

If your 10 responses correspond to those caught in the video, you will have passed the test. (How this will be dealt with is still up for discussion).
 
kk2796 said:
Wellfed, I'd be happy to test your claim remotely, if you're game.......................[snip]

What if your tubes blow? will you or any spectator be inbeteween the camera and the CDs???


You are really wasting your time. I've come to form the opinion that Wellfred, a while ago, came to lose confidence in his claim. As such, he has choosen to stall, delay hem and haw in every possible fashion - and even outright make a threat that he would delay things until October until he got what he wanted: A way out.


If he won't even conduct his own simple DBT, or BT in the comfort and convienace of his own home, what makes you think he'll do yours?
 
EDIT: Wow - I really need some sleep. This post will make a lot more sense in light of the fact that I'd been reading "Wellfound" everywhere I saw "Wellfred"... Anyway, apologies for the confusion!
/EDIT

Having read the numerous discussions over the past few days, I don't doubt your cynicism is well-founded (pardon the wording). However, I think the test I offer sidesteps every objection wellfound has voiced to date.
What if your tubes blow?

My CD player doesn't have "tubes", nor does WF's claim rely on my CD player to be of sufficient quality. If WF uses a CD player with tubes to analyze the returned CD's, and one of his tubes blows, he has 14 days to fix the tube and redo his analysis. If he can't get a system to play 20 songs over a period of 14 days, then I think he's quite underqualified to be calling himself an audiophile.

will you or any spectator be inbeteween the camera and the CDs???
For the treatment process, care will be taken to ensure the camera has ample coverage of all steps. For the analysis, Wellfound will be free to listen to the CD's in full view of his system, with no obstacles, in a comfortable environment completely free of distractions and/or observers. What more could he ask for?
 
kk2796 said:
Having read the numerous discussions over the past few days, I don't doubt your cynicism is well-founded (pardon the wording). However, I think the test I offer sidesteps every objection wellfound has voiced to date. ..... [snip]


In my reply, I certainly was not being serious in regards to the service that you were offering. And in regards to Wellfred, Yes, I am highly dissapointed about a very easily testable claim that I have read since its inception.

Someone who I thought would not take the route of every single other claim (despite being newly registered, I'm a very long time lurker) ... well, took the route of every single other claim.

Arguing about, or for, things that obviously had no impact upon what he claimed he was able to do.

Additionally, keep this in mind, in the comfort and conviencance of his own home he has done no BT. He has done no DBT. He is either secure in his delusion, secure in "simple listening tests" (whatever that means) or is fully aware already that he is delusional and does not want to admit it.

Regardless, If he has not done basic tests in his own home what makes you think he will submit to yours?

I am not condeming you - nor slighting you - in the least. I hope you understand that. Just consider he has done no DBT or BT in his own home.
 
Regardless, If he has not done basic tests in his own home what makes you think he will submit to yours?

Ah, and you're really to the heart of it - I sheepishly confess that I'm a type A personality when it comes to this type of thing... I couldn't help but take up the challenge of trying to devise a test that would
1) address WF's objections (forcing him to probably come up with new, ever farther-fetched objections) and yet
2) still test and falsifiy his claims, should they indeed be false.

In short, and in honesty, I think there is very little chance of my test being accepted.
 

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