Great news for engineers!

[Ivor the Engineer]

In the October edition of Engineering & Technology Careers section from the IET:

Attempts to set a benchmark for assessing how well the British public understand what engineers do have revealed a worrying level of confusion among young people that threatens to make it even more difficult to attract new recruits into the profession.

Research carried out on behalf of the Engineering and Technology Board and The Royal Academy of Engineering found that two-thirds of young people know very little about engineering, while almost three-quarters don't understand what engineers do.

Among older participants, engineers were generally respected and rated well compared with lawyers and the medical profession. However, the use of the term 'engineering' to describe activities as diverse as financial engineering and car repairing means that younger people were confused about what engineers actually do. This led younger people to score engineers the lowest for their participation on resolving major world issues such as climate change or vaccine development.

This is great news! It means my boss understands and appreciates what I do and there will be few young people to kick me out of a job when I'm past 50. I say keep on encouraging them to study psychology

 

[EvilBiker]

If you have a boss older than you then you're in a dead end job, mate

Kidding aside (and yes, on the face of it I do see it as great news), it actually worries me how the word "engineer" has become a catchall for anybody with the IQ high enough to hold a screwdriver by the right end.

I feel diluted.

 

[The Atheist]

I recruit engineers, so you're preaching to the converted here.

I quite frequently have people apply for jobs who think they're engineers because they can spell the word. Part of it is legislative, I'm sure - it's an offence to call yourself a doctor or lawyer if you aren't one. Maybe it should be the same for engineers. If you're not a chartered/registered engineer, you may not use the title. That's how it works in consulting (over here anyway) - if you don't have chartered status, you're an engineering associate, not an engineer.

 

[Jimbo07]

I quite frequently have people apply for jobs who think they're engineers because they can spell the word. Part of it is legislative, I'm sure - it's an offence to call yourself a doctor or lawyer if you aren't one. Maybe it should be the same for engineers. If you're not a chartered/registered engineer, you may not use the title. That's how it works in consulting (over here anyway) - if you don't have chartered status, you're an engineering associate, not an engineer.

It's the same with the title P.Eng. (and even E.I.T.) here. Try applying for a job which calls for one and not being qualified...

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I think the main reason for the difference in how the public see engineers, lawyers and physicians is they don't get to interact with engineers in the same way. You go to see a doctor because you are ill. You go to see a lawyer because you need legal advice. When do members of the public go to see a qualified engineer for anything they need?

Also, doctors and lawyers are generally better washed, dressed and less weird than the freaks who inhabit engineering departments.

 

[EvilBiker]

Yup, the Pr. Eng. is the registration, so to speak. However, I've found that this seems to be found mainly in heavy industry, or industry involved with government contracts, in the main.

I should rephrase - it's recognised across all engineering disciplines, but is only really required for the above, in most cases.

The distinction blurs a lot more than between Pr.Eng and Eng, though. Traditionally, you could only be called an engineer if you were degreed, B.Sc. at least.

The rot started when some bunch of twits came up with politically correct phrase "sanitation engineers" for dunnikin men in the '80's or thereabouts. I suspect it was the Poms, by I stand under correction.

 

[EvilBiker]

I think the main reason for the difference in how the public see engineers, lawyers and physicians is they don't get to interact with engineers in the same way. You go to see a doctor because you are ill. You go to see a lawyer because you need legal advice. When do members of the public go to see a qualified engineer for anything they need?

Also, doctors and lawyers are generally better washed, dressed and less weird than the freaks who inhabit engineering departments.

Members of the public go to see qualified engineers when "that damned computer locked up my Microsoft again!"

Your weird, my boardroom advantage!

 

[Myriad]

I quite frequently have people apply for jobs who think they're engineers because they can spell the word. Part of it is legislative, I'm sure - it's an offence to call yourself a doctor or lawyer if you aren't one. Maybe it should be the same for engineers. If you're not a chartered/registered engineer, you may not use the title. That's how it works in consulting (over here anyway) - if you don't have chartered status, you're an engineering associate, not an engineer.

It might not be a criminal offense to call yourself an engineer without the formal credentials, but the civil liability exposure in doing so should be enough to frighten anyone off.

I did the work of an electrical engineer for many years, designing, building, purchasing, modifying, testing, and operating all kinds of electronic systems. I always called myself an Electronics Technician, never a EE.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Jimbo07]

I did the work of an electrical engineer for many years, designing, building, purchasing, modifying, testing, and operating all kinds of electronic systems. I always called myself an Electronics Technician, never a EE.

Moreover, you were probably better than some EEs at electronics!

 

[Soapy Sam]

I'm waiting for someone to tell me what managers do.

 

[Fnord]

Yew meen ta tel me that jus cuz I kin spel injunear it dont meen I ar wun?

 

[kellyb]

You guys, like, drive trains and stuff, right?
Do you get to sleep in a caboose at night? That sounds kewl.

 

[technoextreme]

It might not be a criminal offense to call yourself an engineer without the formal credentials, but the civil liability exposure in doing so should be enough to frighten anyone off.

I did the work of an electrical engineer for many years, designing, building, purchasing, modifying, testing, and operating all kinds of electronic systems. I always called myself an Electronics Technician, never a EE.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Actually, what you are claiming isn't true. You can do as much engineering as you want but there are times where you have to have a PE sign off of it. That's where you are exposing yourself to civil liability.

This is great news! It means my boss understands and appreciates what I do and there will be few young people to kick me out of a job when I'm past 50. I say keep on encouraging them to study psychology

If anything I would say Americans have a better grasp on what engineering is.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Yes, the PE is a whole new experience in professional liability. I have had architects and other people bring me plans that I have not been involved with producing for my stamp because I am the only one they know with a license in a particular state. Here's an example from an e-mail I got just yesterday, "If I have the plans done, can you sign and squeeze this afternoon??? Let me know and gracias in advance." This is the second time he has done this to me. Last year he came to me with a set of plans for a hotel site and sanitary pump station. I told him I needed to review the plans, specs and all calculations before I would stamp them. I also told him that next time I need to be involved during the actual design, not just stamping something at the end of a project. He seemed very annoyed that I wasn't a team player. I spent 2 days reviewing what he had done and he had to spend 3 days fixing the obvious problems I found with the pump station. 10 months later he is asking me to do it again and he is again surprised that I have a problem with just reviewing them. This jerk wouldn't miss a minute of sleep if I lost my PE license, unless it was because he would have to find another PE for his next project in that state.

Every chance I get, I take the time to do a middle school career day. I put together a presentation on engineers and engineering that kids that age seem to really like. Last year I was the hit of my kid's elementary school career day. I find it very rewarding.

 

[Jimbo07]

Yup, the Pr. Eng. is the registration, so to speak. However, I've found that this seems to be found mainly in heavy industry, or industry involved with government contracts, in the main.

My experience:
- just finished a degree in Engineering Physics six months ago
- registered with my provincial association as an E.I.T.
- been involved with (or even started) a couple of really cool innovative projects

My question (especially to people in other jurisdictions):

How involved are P.Eng.s in genuine innovation? My extremely limited experience is starting to hint that P.Eng.s can be risk averse, or in the case of government contracts, engaged in cookie-cutter engineering. The few with both much more experience than me, and who I would consider genuinely innovative (like one of my younger profs) are just innovative people, with the P.Eng. coming almost like an after thought.

 

[technoextreme]

Yes, the PE is a whole new experience in professional liability. I have had architects and other people bring me plans that I have not been involved with producing for my stamp because I am the only one they know with a license in a particular state. Here's an example from an e-mail I got just yesterday, "If I have the plans done, can you sign and squeeze this afternoon??? Let me know and gracias in advance." This is the second time he has done this to me. Last year he came to me with a set of plans for a hotel site and sanitary pump station. I told him I needed to review the plans, specs and all calculations before I would stamp them. I also told him that next time I need to be involved during the actual design, not just stamping something at the end of a project. He seemed very annoyed that I wasn't a team player. I spent 2 days reviewing what he had done and he had to spend 3 days fixing the obvious problems I found with the pump station. 10 months later he is asking me to do it again and he is again surprised that I have a problem with just reviewing them. This jerk wouldn't miss a minute of sleep if I lost my PE license, unless it was because he would have to find another PE for his next project in that state.

Reading this it seems similar to what happened to my professor. He actually told me he reported someone for bribery to sign off on a design without looking at it. Reading the above it might be prudent to pursue this avenue.

 

[kleinjahr]

I'm what they now call an Operating Engineer,used to be at sea now ashore. Earned the right to call myself an engineer by spilling a lot of sweat and some blood. Mostly self taught, I've been at it for almost thirty years. If anyone says I've not the right to call myself an engineer, I'll invite him for a little "chat" behind the boiler.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Reading this it seems similar to what happened to my professor. He actually told me he reported someone for bribery to sign off on a design without looking at it. Reading the above it might be prudent to pursue this avenue.

He didn't actually offer me anything to do it. I simply told him what I will and will not do. We work for different departments of the same company. He doesn't have a PE registered in the project state in his department. I have recommended that he get one of his people registered there but he doesn't see the need. He would rather try to just bully me. My project director is aware of the situation and backs me 100%. He won't get his way.

ETA: I had a professor in my professional practice class tell us about someone who represented himself as a PE in court as an expert witness. The plaintiff's attorney questioned him about it and he said it stood for "Physics Expert." It turned out he had almost completed a B.S. in physics. Not only did the plaintiff win but the "PE" was reported for practicing engineering without a license. There's probably a baker out there calling himself an "MD" for "Maker of Doughnuts."

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

I'm what they now call an Operating Engineer,used to be at sea now ashore. Earned the right to call myself an engineer by spilling a lot of sweat and some blood. Mostly self taught, I've been at it for almost thirty years. If anyone says I've not the right to call myself an engineer, I'll invite him for a little "chat" behind the boiler.

You can call yourself an engineer. In the U.S. you cannot call yourself a "Professional Engineer" or use the abbreviation "PE" after your name if you are not licensed as such in at least one state. I am licensed in 4 states and am in the process of getting another.

RenaissanceBiker, PE

 

[Fnord]

You guys, like, drive trains and stuff, right?
Do you get to sleep in a caboose at night? That sounds kewl.

Weird question, but which is the plural of "Caboose" -- "Cabeese," "Cabooses," or "Caboose"?