God Stops Time For Atheists

godless dave said:
Shouldn't this be "God stops time for non-Christians?" Atheists are far from the only people who refuse to accept Christ as their savior.
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Ah yes, but the rest of us have already sorted out our exit strategy and have no need of Jewish Zombies.

thankyou all the same.
:p
 
Wholly irrelevant thought excercise because the Catholic church will sell you a scapular here, in this world, that is as effective as anything else at securing a place in heaven.
 
Kahalachan said:
What possible objection can there be for this aside from a desire to bully us into Christianity?
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Umm... Cause it makes god completely useless pointless and stupid?
Why should I bother doing any of the not so fun stuff like praying, going to church etc if I can just walk into heaven once I get solid proof?

Also, it means that god is utterly powerless to show himself before you die since he hasn't really bothrered doing it before then. Why is that?
 
GrandMasterFox said:
Umm... Cause it makes god completely useless pointless and stupid?
Why should I bother doing any of the not so fun stuff like praying, going to church etc if I can just walk into heaven once I get solid proof?


Also, it means that god is utterly powerless to show himself before you die since he hasn't really bothrered doing it before then. Why is that?
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You would do those things because you love god, not to gain a reward.

I guess I can add on more Ad Hoc and say that god wanted to maximize the amount of time we live a natural life before fully revealing himself in a supernatural way.
 
Kahalachan said:
Right before any of us atheists die, god stops time for us. One unit of Planck time just shy of us dying.

In this period, god completely addresses our arguments. QED. We have no response and god proves any possible argument against his existence or qualities to our full understanding. We have complete proof god is real.

God may also allow us to completely comprehend hell and what it is like. We fully comprehend how bad hell is.

God now offers us the ability to accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior, which I would do. Anyone else who doesn't chooses hell with full realization of the consequences of their choice.


Is there reason why this cannot be true? In fact, it almost has to be true for an all loving and god who is a perfect judge.

"It's not in the Bible" Neither are cars. The existence of cars is true, even though it's not in the Bible.

It doesn't have to be in the Bible for it to be true, the only issue is that it cannot contradict the Bible.

Which my "God stopping time" theory doesn't do.


What possible objection can there be for this aside from a desire to bully us into Christianity?
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So God is real, but still a thug, and threatens us with punishment for...what? We can't not believe since He's just proven Himself, according to your premise.

We could "accept" the plan, but that doesn't mean we still won't find it an idiotic plan. Then what? We get thrown into Hell for thinking, correctly, God is an Ass?

That's not helping God's case that He's kind, much.
 
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Kahalachan said:
You would do those things because you love god, not to gain a reward.
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So it's compulsary because you love the guy? Not really...
It's called comandments for a reason. It's not supposed to be an optional proof of love.


Kahalachan said:
I guess I can add on more Ad Hoc and say that god wanted to maximize the amount of time we live a natural life before fully revealing himself in a supernatural way.
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Which would make our lives here completely pointless. The purpose of the afterlife fable is that god is testing you here and then setting you up for the next eternal life.

If following god's decree is not important what so ever, who cares about him?

That is why deisim is completely useless. It doesn't affect our life for good or bad therefore it's irelavent and pointless.
 
Kahalachan said:
Right before any of us atheists die, god stops time for us. One unit of Planck time just shy of us dying.

In this period, god completely addresses our arguments. QED. We have no response and god proves any possible argument against his existence or qualities to our full understanding. We have complete proof god is real.
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Why should she wait till that time?

What possible objection can there be for this aside from a desire to bully us into Christianity?
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That it has superfluous complexity and makes no sense.

It assumes that the only thing that decides whether we go to heaven or hell is our own decision. Obviously, anybody would pick the most pleasant option, knowing the full implications.

OTOH, if God is just and judges people on their deeds, this moment of evaluation is not necessary. God already knows if we deserve it or not.

Hans
 
Kahalachan, you seem to be hanging onto some twisted thread of Pascal's Wager. You say that you were a Christian but are now an atheist, yet you are clinging to the idea that there really might be a god - the Christian god - who will give you one last chance to avoid eternal torment, even though you've rejected him.

Is it fair to characterize the line of thinking from your OP as, "I've rejected the Christian god, but on the very off-chance if he does exist, his sense of justice and righteousness will give me one millisecond of time to see him and allow me to accept him, as opposed to kicking me straight to hell. There's nothing in the bible to say he couldn't do this, so I wonder what my fellow atheists will think, because I bet some of them are just as worried as I am."

If somebody's worried about god giving them another chance, then I wouldn't classify that person as an atheist. I don't worry about what god might do for me when I die, any more than I worry about what Superman might do for me if I accidentally drive my car over a bridge.
 
I don't see that, Sun Countess. I'm seeing a proposed addition to Christian theology that might reduce their urge to proselytize, which I would welcome.

An even greater improvement would be to get rid of hell for nonbelievers altogether, which has support in some denominations.
 
Vortigern99 said:
I started a thread about this, from the biblical angle, about two weeks ago:

Christ Ministers to the Dead; Hence, No Hellfire for Anyone

It's still on page 1 of this Forum and raises the same points as the OP. :cool:
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Kahalachan said:
And it's more of a "Why can't this be true within Christian doctrine" Obviously there is no evidence and I just made it up. That's an objection for us who already do not accept Christianity to begin with as much of it lacks evidence.
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Is this thing on? /taps keyboard/
 
Kahalachan said:
What possible objection can there be for this aside from a desire to bully us into Christianity?
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If they allowed this scenario, then you would go through life without paying any $$ into the church coffers. They can not accept this scenario.
 
Kahalachan said:
Right before any of us atheists die, god stops time for us. One unit of Planck time just shy of us dying.

In this period, god completely addresses our arguments. QED. We have no response and god proves any possible argument against his existence or qualities to our full understanding. We have complete proof god is real.

God may also allow us to completely comprehend hell and what it is like. We fully comprehend how bad hell is.

God now offers us the ability to accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior, which I would do. Anyone else who doesn't chooses hell with full realization of the consequences of their choice.


Is there reason why this cannot be true? In fact, it almost has to be true for an all loving and god who is a perfect judge.

"It's not in the Bible" Neither are cars. The existence of cars is true, even though it's not in the Bible.

It doesn't have to be in the Bible for it to be true, the only issue is that it cannot contradict the Bible.

Which my "God stopping time" theory doesn't do.


What possible objection can there be for this aside from a desire to bully us into Christianity?
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nah Gawd sens us to a HAIL!!!!
 
There are quite a few Christian offshoots that believe something like this. The one I was raised in recounts the following anecdote:

Soon after I spoke with them, and at last about the Lord. When I called Him "Christ" I perceived a certain repugnance in them; but the reason was disclosed, namely, that they had brought this from the world, from their having learned that Christians lived worse lives than they did, and were destitute of charity. But when I called Him simply "Lord" they were interiorly moved. Afterwards, they were taught by the angels that the Christian doctrine beyond every other in the world prescribes love and charity, but that there are few who live in accordance with it. There are heathen who have come to know while they lived in the world, both from interaction and report, that Christians lead bad lives, are addicted to adultery, hatred, quarreling, drunkenness, and the like, which they themselves abhor because such things are contrary to their religion. These in the other life are more timid than others about accepting the truths of faith; but they are taught by the angels that the Christian doctrine, as well as the faith itself, teaches a very different life, but that the lives of Christians are less in accord with their doctrine than the lives of heathen. When they recognize this they receive the truths of faith, and adore the Lord, but less readily than others.

It is a common thing for heathen that have worshiped any god under an image or statue, or any graven thing to be introduced, when they come into the other life, to certain spirits in place of their gods or idols, in order that they may rid themselves of their fantasies. When they have been with these for some days, the fantasies are put away. Also those that have worshiped men are sometimes introduced to the men they have worshiped, or to others in their place - as many of the Jews to Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and David-but when they come to see that they are human the same as others, and that they can give them no help, they become ashamed, and are carried to their own places in accordance with their lives.
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Not all Christians have a problem with the idea of being "corrected" after death.
 
Logically, I think it holds water that an all-powerful creator of the universe has some reponsability to its creations to get them started on the right foot.

I have to wonder about the fate of all the humans that came before religion. I think it is clear from the archeological/historical record that there is not a universal religion that started them all. Certainly not in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Shouldn't a diety of this type be there right at the start, making sure that the beings whose eternal souls depend on it, have a clear understanding of their situation?

Obviously, I do not subscribe to a literal interpretaion of Genisis. If someone here does, I do not mean to offend or start a debate. I am just posting from my own perspecrtive.

Regards, Canis
 
Kahalachan said:
Right before any of us atheists die, god stops time for us. One unit of Planck time just shy of us dying.

In this period, god completely addresses our arguments. QED. We have no response and god proves any possible argument against his existence or qualities to our full understanding. We have complete proof god is real.
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Incidentally, this theory was initially propounded by none other than Archie Bunker. I wish I could find the quote. Essentially, he said that when Jews get to the gates of heaven, St. Peter takes them aside, explains to them what's what, and then they go in.
 
So in his 'wisdom' rather than making all this as perfectly clear as you suggest many years ago earlier in this supposed persons life, so that they might do some good because of it, all is revealed the instant before death? That's a dumb god you've got there (assuming that it is not the Buddha or Brahma or Zeus and that you've been pointed in the wrong direction in the first place).

What would be the point of a god not making this clear all along? What good comes from waiting until the last possible instant? Furthermore, the part that really boggles me is how does fully revealing a truth early on in one's life qualify as 'bullying'?
 
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