Global Warming

[Grammatron]

I have no clue what you think your point is.

If there were only a billion or so of us, we could move to high ground, cooler climates, or uninhabited places. And most of the billion or so would probably survive.

As it is, higher ground, cooler climates, and uninhabited places are pretty much booked up. In the long run, a bunch of us probably will not survive, and the not surviving will probably be by ugly and unpleasant means.

If anything history has shown us is human ability to adapt to different types of climates.

Are you worried about the survival of humanity or keeping the Earth in the exactly same condition indefinetly.

 

[Grammatron]

I think it would be more correct to say that some laymen Americans say no and the rest of the world says yes.

ETA: The "rest of the world" of course also includes the well-respected scientific institutions of the US.

Yeah ok dude.

 

[fishbob]

Are you worried about the survival of humanity or keeping the Earth in the exactly same condition indefinetly.

Neither. The world will change and humanity will survive - probably in reduced numbers. The reduction in numbers will be ugly. I worry about how ugly it will be.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Yeah ok dude.

Victory. Rare and thus sweet.

 

[Grammatron]

Neither. The world will change and humanity will survive - probably in reduced numbers. The reduction in numbers will be ugly. I worry about how ugly it will be.

Doubt it.

 

[a_unique_person]

For an excellent book written by a scientist who understands the physics behind GW and the paleontology that gets so many people hung up on GW, read The Weather Makers, by Tim Flannery. He is an excellent writer, and I cannot recommend him highly enough. He debunks every red herring raised at JREF by the deniers.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0871139359/sr=1-1/qid=1137041271/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4746475-2400018?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Yes, there have been all kinds of weather on the earth. Most of the time it was uninhabitable. There are natural cycles that occur, and we could have been heading for another ice age. Hoever, the CO2 and other greenhouse gases will override that quite comfortably. The problem is that while there are many negative feedback systems in place that stabilise the earth's temperature to a remarkable degree, we could be creating positive feedback systems that cause runaway changes. Our existence on this planet is precarious enough without acting recklessly to add our own changes without regard to the consequences.

 

[Grammatron]

For an excellent book written by a scientist who understands the physics behind GW and the paleontology that gets so many people hung up on GW, read The Weather Makers, by Tim Flannery. He is an excellent writer, and I cannot recommend him highly enough. He debunks every red herring raised at JREF by the deniers.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0871139359/sr=1-1/qid=1137041271/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4746475-2400018?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Yes, there have been all kinds of weather on the earth. Most of the time it was uninhabitable. There are natural cycles that occur, and we could have been heading for another ice age. Hoever, the CO2 and other greenhouse gases will override that quite comfortably. The problem is that while there are many negative feedback systems in place that stabilise the earth's temperature to a remarkable degree, we could be creating positive feedback systems that cause runaway changes. Our existence on this planet is precarious enough without acting recklessly to add our own changes without regard to the consequences.

This item has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

Publication Date: March 12, 2006

Hmm, curious.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

This item has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

Publication Date: March 12, 2006

Hmm, curious.

There may be trade editions of the book floating around. I bought a trade edition of Dr. Gell-Mann's "The Quark and the Jaguar" from him, when he came to give a lecutre at my school. that was several months before it was published if I recall.

 

[Bjorn]

I think it would be more correct to say that some laymen Americans say no and the rest of the world says yes.

ETA: The "rest of the world" of course also includes the well-respected scientific institutions of the US.

And even the Bush administration.

In "Climate Action Report 2002", the third formal communication to the UN under the Framework Convention on Climate Change, the Bush administration says, "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's athmosphere as a result of human activities, causing global mean surface air temperature and subsurface ocean temperature to rise".

 

[Mycroft]

I have no clue what you think your point is.

If there were only a billion or so of us, we could move to high ground, cooler climates, or uninhabited places. And most of the billion or so would probably survive.

As it is, higher ground, cooler climates, and uninhabited places are pretty much booked up. In the long run, a bunch of us probably will not survive, and the not surviving will probably be by ugly and unpleasant means.

So you're really anticipating a doomsday scenario, huh?

 

[Mycroft]

This item has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

Publication Date: March 12, 2006

Hmm, curious.

Good catch!

 

[varwoche]

So you're really anticipating a doomsday scenario, huh?

Interjecting...

In the decades immediately ahead, the changes will be felt in regional water supplies, including areas impacted by accelerated glacier melting in the South American Andes and in western China, putting millions of people at risk without adequate summertime water.

Scripps

Anyone who is serious about this topic should take note of this new study.

 

[a_unique_person]

There may be trade editions of the book floating around. I bought a trade edition of Dr. Gell-Mann's "The Quark and the Jaguar" from him, when he came to give a lecutre at my school. that was several months before it was published if I recall.

I bought it in a bookshop in Australia. (It was published here first). Looks like they are doing the hardback/paperback thing over there.

 

[a_unique_person]

Interjecting...
Scripps

Anyone who is serious about this topic should take note of this new study.

If you want the full 'gloom and doom' scenarios, "The Weather Makers" has them too. Since he is a mammologist as well, he has an excellent insight into the impacts on the 'natural' world. (Inlcuding us, of course). He feels the largest cities are the most vulnerable. The US, which already has the most extreme weather in the world, is particularly vulnerable. (Wildfires causing havoc in winter?)

 

[ImaginalDisc]

If you want the full 'gloom and doom' scenarios, "The Weather Makers" has them too. Since he is a mammologist as well, he has an excellent insight into the impacts on the 'natural' world. (Inlcuding us, of course). He feels the largest cities are the most vulnerable. The US, which already has the most extreme weather in the world, is particularly vulnerable. (Wildfires causing havoc in winter?)

We have the most extreme weather in the world? Isn't this hyperbole?

Asia has the largest deserts, the highest mountaints, and the most wetlands. Do we get monsoons?

 

[Grammatron]

I bought it in a bookshop in Australia. (It was published here first). Looks like they are doing the hardback/paperback thing over there.

Looks like it came out in September 2005 in Australia.

Could be an interesting read, although he seem to be dooming and glooming base on the description from an Australian book store.

 

[Grammatron]

We have the most extreme weather in the world? Isn't this hyperbole?

Asia has the largest deserts, the highest mountaints, and the most wetlands. Do we get monsoons?

I saw clouds the other day and it rained last week. That was pretty extreme for Los Angeles

 

[fishbob]

Doubt it.

Which of my 3 separate statements do you doubt?

 

[a_unique_person]

We have the most extreme weather in the world? Isn't this hyperbole?

Asia has the largest deserts, the highest mountaints, and the most wetlands. Do we get monsoons?

When you consider the range of weather that affects just one country, the US cops it all from wild fires (heat and drought) to hurricanes to blizzards to floods to tornadoes. According to Flannery, no other country gets quite that range.

 

[varwoche]

There's a graph in there, I strongly suggest you take a gander at it.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/OAR/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BPHU8/$File/chapter3.pdf

Thanks for this.

Table 3.1 is confusing. I suppose 2000 means 2000-2024, etc.?