GERALD EPLING - Shimmering Leaf Inventor

[Jeff Wagg]

Mea Culpa..i've been quite busy recently.. Going through this one now.

 

[Thing]

Let's have two pans of water, one boiling, one room temperature. The instrumented egg sits in a basket with n others. The experimenter fllips a coin and tells Gerald the result. If it's heads he picks up an egg and puts it in the boiling water, if it's tails he puts it in the tepid water. Repeat n times. Record the output of the device. If it only beeps for the eggs that are about to be boiled, give him the money.

Gerald, would this work for you? How far away could the pans be from the basket of eggs? And how far could the monitoring device be from both? I'm assuming that whatever transducer attaches to the egg has a lead from it to the device, is that correct?

 

[bassett]

...
Gerald, would this work for you? How far away could the pans be from the basket of eggs? And how far could the monitoring device be from both? I'm assuming that whatever transducer attaches to the egg has a lead from it to the device, is that correct?

I prefer my experiment design as presented on June 8th. The actual electrode surface is gold over aluminum foil. There are two leads that provide an electrical connection between the instrument and the foil.

 

[bassett]

I understand the skepticism involved in responses to my claim. I am really impressed with the investigative attitude that leads people to try things. By example, when rjh01 placed a cell phone in a microwave oven and noted that it could still receive calls, and the replication by Ririon "<Walks off to check with the nearest microwave oven.>" This sort of initiative is refreshing.

A focus on the ability of a cell phone to receive a call in a shielded environment suggests to me that there is some concern that I am using some sort of manufactured electronic transmitter and receiver arrangement. If that is the concern, then why not have someone do a scan for transmitters?

Gerald Epling

 

[macgyver]

I understand the skepticism involved in responses to my claim.

That's great, so you can understand that the main concern is to try and isolate every environmental influence, other than the egg, from affecting the Shimmering Leaf.

That includes, temperature fluctuations, air currents, radio waves, even changes in lighting in case there's a photovoltaic response.

The more you can assist in eliminating these factors as having any influence, the better!

For instance, could we encase the shimmering leaf and egg in a partial vaccuum RF shielded enclosure? Does the egg have to "see" the other egg going into the boiling water? Or could the enclosure also be sound proofed, and opaque so no light would affect the device?

This would help in the blinding requirements, because the egg could be replaced with other control objects, or no object, quite easily.

What is the nature of the communication of "intent" to the egg?

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

Does bassett have to see the egg for it to work? Why not just run the leads inside a box and have him do the same procedure with a egg and fake egg in the device. He sould not know if the device contains a geniune egg or not. The eggs could still be arranged so they can see each other. Put a door in the side of the box that can be raised or lowered if the eggs need line of sight.

If the claimant wont know when the device contains a real egg dosent that eliminate the concerns without requiring all sorts of fancy scanning equipment and cages?

He can run the experiment any way he wishes with the one condition that he not know when the real egg is being used. You could even use a drained shell for the fake or a plastic shell from the magic shop so it would be hard to tell if he managed to catch a glimpse in the box.

 

[macgyver]

He can run the experiment any way he wishes with the one condition that he not know when the real egg is being used. You could even use a drained shell for the fake or a plastic shell from the magic shop so it would be hard to tell if he managed to catch a glimpse in the box.

I like this idea too, real egg or fake egg? I think we'd have to match the fake egg to the real in terms of mass, in case the weight of the egg has an effect on the foil (reduced resistance between gold and aluminum foils when x-sectional area is increased)

How about this? Does it matter if the egg is double blinded and swapped with a counterfeit egg?

 

[Ririon]

I understand the skepticism involved in responses to my claim. I am really impressed with the investigative attitude that leads people to try things. By example, when rjh01 placed a cell phone in a microwave oven and noted that it could still receive calls, and the replication by Ririon "<Walks off to check with the nearest microwave oven.>" This sort of initiative is refreshing.

A focus on the ability of a cell phone to receive a call in a shielded environment suggests to me that there is some concern that I am using some sort of manufactured electronic transmitter and receiver arrangement. If that is the concern, then why not have someone do a scan for transmitters?

Gerald Epling

I can assure you that you will indeed be scanned for transmitters when you come in with a paranormal claim concerning an electronic device. I don't think you would try to use one, myself. But if you try to measure what is presumably a weak electric signal, shouldn't you be the first one to suggest blocking any kind of outside interference not coming from the egg? If you do indeed have a device that can measure electrical signals coming out of an egg, it will be extremely susceptible to all kinds of electromagnetic fields.

 

[bassett]

I can assure you that you will indeed be scanned for transmitters when you come in with a paranormal claim concerning an electronic device. I don't think you would try to use one, myself. But if you try to measure what is presumably a weak electric signal, shouldn't you be the first one to suggest blocking any kind of outside interference not coming from the egg? If you do indeed have a device that can measure electrical signals coming out of an egg, it will be extremely susceptible to all kinds of electromagnetic fields.

This is a problem with all electrophysiology. Fortunately, I have found ways to overcome the challenge of electronic smog.

Gerald Epling

 

[macgyver]

This is a problem with all electrophysiology. Fortunately, I have found ways to overcome the challenge of electronic smog.

I don't expect that you'll reveal your secret methods of doing this. But you do understand that it doesn't matter, the test protocol will still have to find external ways to eliminate it's influence.

 

[Ririon]

This is a problem with all electrophysiology. Fortunately, I have found ways to overcome the challenge of electronic smog.

Gerald Epling

In the process of "finding ways", did you try a Faraday cage? If so, what happened? If not, why not? Would it be acceptable to use one during the challenge test?

 

[RSLancastr]

From Mr. Epling's correspondence with Jeff Wagg:

The brand of egg that I have used most often in my experiments is Egglands Best. (See: http://egglandsbest.com/egglandsbest/ebaward.html ) I prefer these eggs because they come from vegetarian fed hens and taste really good.

I wonder if this is the first time that a JREF challenge applicant chose a subject for their experiment due to its deliciousness?

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

We do not have to know his intentions or if he remotely triggers the device just keep it simple. If they do the hammer test and base it on his intentions then he can claim that the testers had evil thoughts about the egg.

Double blind the egg and the whole thing boils down to if he can tell the difference.

The leads run behind a curtain or into a box.
Randomly decide if a real egg is placed in the device
The victim egg is boiled

He can use the device beeps or any other paranormal means to say "Yes" or "No". Is it a real egg or not?

Repeat numerous times with different eggs or blanks.

Does a hard boiled egg work in the device? perhaps they could us those as the decoys.

Testing of the device by the examiners without bassett in the room can easily determine if it is just a egg detector.

 

[Ririon]

We do not have to know his intentions or if he remotely triggers the device just keep it simple. If they do the hammer test and base it on his intentions then he can claim that the testers had evil thoughts about the egg.

Double blind the egg and the whole thing boils down to if he can tell the difference.

The leads run behind a curtain or into a box.
Randomly decide if a real egg is placed in the device
The victim egg is boiled

He can use the device beeps or any other paranormal means to say "Yes" or "No". Is it a real egg or not?

Repeat numerous times with different eggs or blanks.

Does a hard boiled egg work in the device? perhaps they could us those as the decoys.

Testing of the device by the examiners without bassett in the room can easily determine if it is just a egg detector.

A device that picks up random electromagnetic noise, and is slightly more likely to do so with a raw egg acting as an antenna could pass such a test, couldn't it? It would be a mindboggingly useless device, but not paranormal. I think this is exactly such a device.

 

[macgyver]

Double blind the egg and the whole thing boils down to if he can tell the difference.

Pun intended I'm sure...

With this setup, one would expect that no matter what the object is in the Shimmering Leaf, the test should produce the same results?

This would have the advantage of the fact that it would show that egg or no egg, the device beeps. Combined with the claimant's attempt to determine if there is really an egg in behind the shroud or not.

The test could be set up just as the claimant suggests in his video, but the difference would be that the device would be shielded from view by a shroud. If the claimant is in a different room viewing through a window, the viewing window can be blinded as the objects are randomly changed.

One more point. If there is a possibility that the liquid material within a fresh egg changes conductance as it warms up (convection currents within liquid?) Would it be considered a "dead" egg if the contents were scrambled rather than hardboiled?

There are devices available that can scramble an egg within it's shell.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

A device that picks up random electromagnetic noise, and is slightly more likely to do so with a raw egg acting as an antenna could pass such a test, couldn't it? It would be a mindboggingly useless device, but not paranormal. I think this is exactly such a device.

Thats why I suggested testing the device beforehand to see if its just a egg detector.

 

[macgyver]

Thats why I suggested testing the device beforehand to see if its just a egg detector.

I think this is the right track. But I'm just wondering what "form" the egg can take? I think you suggested boiled, I'm suggesting internally scrambled.

However, we need to have a statement from the claimant agreeing that only a fresh egg, not a boiled, or scrambled one, will cause the detector to beep.

I think this is important to eliminate any vaguaries in determining what is causing the detector to beep.

The claimant is suggesting that the fresh unfertilized egg is somehow "living", and it's this "lifeforce" that's being detected....if a scrambled egg is considered dead, then it should be a perfect substitute.

 

[Ririon]

Thats why I suggested testing the device beforehand to see if its just a egg detector.

How do you propose to tell apart these two devices:

1. A badly constructed egg detector that sometimes detects an egg after a while depending on the electromagnetic noise in the room.

2. A device that sometimes detects the subtle feelings of an egg after a while apparently depending on the electromagnetic noise in the room.

 

[Ririon]

Hammer VS boiling water?

It doesn't really matter unless you only boil the water if you intend to boil the egg. The added humidity would be a whopping big non-paranormal hint about your intent. If you have the water boiling all the time and use a random event like the throw of a die to decide what your "intent" is, boiling water should be just fine. But a hammer is easier and more fun.

 

[steenkh]

Hammer VS boiling water?

It doesn't really matter unless you only boil the water if you intend to boil the egg. The added humidity would be a whopping big non-paranormal hint about your intent. If you have the water boiling all the time and use a random event like the throw of a die to decide what your "intent" is, boiling water should be just fine. But a hammer is easier and more fun.

I agree. The hammer is more fun, and makes for a shorter test, but if the Shimmering Leaf can only detect intent to boil, it is easy to set up this kind of test as you say.

I would really like to know what a "cohort" is! Do eggs get friendly when they sit in the same box for a long time? Would an egg be insensitive if you boil another egg that it has not been acquainted with, say, if the other egg hails from another egg farm and has been bought in another shop?