Gates Foundation admits Common Core Mistake. What now?

[RobRoy]

This isn't just a common curriculum. It's Common Core(TM), a newfangled, buzzword-heavy rearrangement of deck chairs. Some of it's pretty good, like incorporating the latest research in education. Some of it is less good, like insisting that everyone use expensive, proprietary software to be online all the time so that everything can be tracked on an individual-student basis. And some of it is just plain dumb, like doubling down on America's existing infatuation for standardized tests to make an even more bare minimum of course material.

Interesting. I passed over the OP, but the subsequent discussion was quite nice. My wife is a teacher, and while she didn't love the switch to CC, she had the same impression as above—some parts are great, some are mediocre, some are meh.

My oldest son has known nothing but CC, and, obviously, so has my second son (youngest won't start for another two years). I am quite impressed with his math skills (since I have none). Perhaps he gets it from his scientist mother (let's hope), but he has brought home awards for his skill in it. Whatever they're doing, he seems to get it.

 

[Fudbucker]

Interesting. I passed over the OP, but the subsequent discussion was quite nice. My wife is a teacher, and while she didn't love the switch to CC, she had the same impression as above—some parts are great, some are mediocre, some are meh.

My oldest son has known nothing but CC, and, obviously, so has my second son (youngest won't start for another two years). I am quite impressed with his math skills (since I have none). Perhaps he gets it from his scientist mother (let's hope), but he has brought home awards for his skill in it. Whatever they're doing, he seems to get it.

I teach elementary. When people complain about Common Core, I always ask them what's 7,000 - 4999. If they bother to do the problem, there's the usual crossing out of zeros in place of nines, etc. It looks like a mess when they're done.

Then I tell them, just add 1 to both numbers: 7001 - 5000. How easy is that? THAT'S Common Core.

 

[Minoosh]

I teach elementary. When people complain about Common Core, I always ask them what's 7,000 - 4999. If they bother to do the problem, there's the usual crossing out of zeros in place of nines, etc. It looks like a mess when they're done.

Then I tell them, just add 1 to both numbers: 7001 - 5000. How easy is that? THAT'S Common Core.

Or:

(7000 - 5000) + 1

But that's not something I associate with Common Core. I'm pretty sure such shortcuts were covered in my school days.

 

[marting]

Or:

(7000 - 5000) + 1

But that's not something I associate with Common Core. I'm pretty sure such shortcuts were covered in my school days.

Common Core math is all about understanding the why to the point that you stop depending on rote memory and approach a problem with a wide set of tools. Showing several ways to solve a problem is encouraged. When you learn the why you are more likely to retain it after summer break or a few years out of school.

One major problem is that most teachers were used to teaching processes and the reasoning behind them was secondary if that. And perhaps many teachers didn't really have a deep enough knowledge themselves to be effective. Where that was the case Common Core produced poorer results. Where the teachers were able to teach it the way it was designed results were much better.

 

[AdamSK]

But that's not something I associate with Common Core. I'm pretty sure such shortcuts were covered in my school days.

The very best math teachers have been teaching with Common Core methods for decades. And the very best students have basically been teaching themselves what Common Core is trying to get all the students to learn.

 

[madurobob]

The very best math teachers have been teaching with Common Core methods for decades. And the very best students have basically been teaching themselves what Common Core is trying to get all the students to learn.

Thats pretty much my take. I was *far* from the best maths student in grade school, but as an adult when I started reviewing CC math techniques my kids were studying I recognized a few that I used as a kid. I remembered a couple of occasions where I explained to my teachers how I determined the (correct) answer to certain types of problems and was told flat out I was wrong, even tho I could arrive at the correct answer faster and more intuitively.

Lucky for me my dad was a math major with a doctorate in cognitive psychology. He told me around this same time "you're going to find that almost all of your teachers are human, and in some areas you are going to be smarter than your teachers. Deal with it." It was.... liberating to realize my teachers might be wrong instead of me, and that I could also let that go.

 

[AdamSK]

Common Core standards were released on June 2, 2010. Perhaps you can tell us which states you claim adopted it before that date, since you claim it was almost universally adopted "before it was written."

No answer to this question from the OP. I guess this was a post-and-run for him rather than a discussion.

 

[Worm]

As a former maths student, and the son of maths teacher, I respectfully suggest that what most system seem to assume is that there is one best way to teach the subject. This is not the case, and I would assume the same holds for other subjects.

Different students learn in different ways, and a good teacher is able to adapt their style to suit that individual. Now this requires extra effort, and of course it is not practical for a teacher to teach a topic in 30 different ways to suit 30 individual pupils. But having the ability to approach topics in different ways to assist student who struggle with a single method is invaluable in engaging with those who struggle to understand.

Prescriptive frameworks that insist on a rigid approach will, in my opinion, always fail those who learn in different ways, and will put barriers in the way of the exact teachers that we should be encouraging.

 

[marting]

Thats pretty much my take. I was *far* from the best maths student in grade school, but as an adult when I started reviewing CC math techniques my kids were studying I recognized a few that I used as a kid. I remembered a couple of occasions where I explained to my teachers how I determined the (correct) answer to certain types of problems and was told flat out I was wrong, even tho I could arrive at the correct answer faster and more intuitively.

Lucky for me my dad was a math major with a doctorate in cognitive psychology. He told me around this same time "you're going to find that almost all of your teachers are human, and in some areas you are going to be smarter than your teachers. Deal with it." It was.... liberating to realize my teachers might be wrong instead of me, and that I could also let that go.

I remember a brief heated argument with my 6th grade teacher. He insisted planets were not visible at night to the naked eye because they didn't emit light unlike stars. The discussion ended abruptly before I could ask how the Romans came to name many of them. Precognitive skills I guess.

 

[RobRoy]

I remember a brief heated argument with my 6th grade teacher. He insisted planets were not visible at night to the naked eye because they didn't emit light unlike stars. The discussion ended abruptly before I could ask how the Romans came to name many of them. Precognitive skills I guess.

Ha!

In a high school history class, almost went to the principal’s/discipline office (I forget which) when I argued against a test definition from an open book test. The teacher, who was really a coach, (why are they always coaches?) insisted that they were socialists. His confusion came from a line in the book, which I still recall: “The Nazi Party claimed to be socialists. They were not. They were fascists.” I had no idea why he would insist on the socialist definition, when the book was clear.

 

[Checkmite]

What exactly is wrong with standardized testing, in a practical sense? I'm pretty sure all advanced nations use teaching and testing standards, including all of those that opponents of standardized testing like to lament score routinely higher than the US in (standardized) international comparative tests.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

There is nothing wrong with standardized testing, which we have been doing for over a century.

I don't know what reasonable person could possibly oppose standardized testing. As homeschoolers, how else are we supposed to gauge our progress? Same with public schools - there are appalling ones and decent ones, and standardized testing is the only way to accomplish a comparison. Parochial schools - same thing.

Common Core, in Bill Gates' vision, was a testing delivery system: computerized online testing. Instead of paper, pencil, and bubbles to fill in. A computer and software for every child, an online interactive test.

We've had to use them. It is infuriating for technical failures. The tests for the entire state of Alaska were cancelled this year because a worker in Kansas severed a cable. We did not sign up for the same test, but we did a battery for both kids. We have to do these advanced placement nonverbal progressive matrices tests too - a few elite public schools like one in NYC do them. I have a hair to move there. So we're training for the test, regardless.

For us what happens is the test is timed. So it takes time to download, to send the answer, to record it, and to come back with the next question. Parts of a question will download, and you cannot figure out how to answer because there is visual material missing.

Paper and pencil tests are bullet proof and they leave permanent evidence of your answers.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The teacher, who was really a coach, (why are they always coaches?)

Because that is what the parents value. Society. Our culture. In the High Schools the Jocks are Kings. The cheer squad for the girls traditionally, but any athletic girl, yow.

To get a public school job, most especially high school you have to be a coach. Football and Basketball are the highest royalty in most places. Hockey, wrestling, baseball, track and field - you name it. If you can coach wrestling, you are the math teacher.

I have had the same experience as you more than once. In Pennsylvania, the closed-book test had a question on the battle of Pittsburg landing. It was meant by the teacher-coach to be a "gimme" question that everyone could answer because Pittsburg is in Pennsylvania. It was in Tennessee and he marked me wrong. I brought my father's civil war history book to class and showed him. He made me keep it a secret. But he sure had kids laughing at me when I called attention to it in class.

That was protocol for my public school teachers.

 

[AdamSK]

Hey, AlaskaBushPilot is back. Swell.

Common Core standards were released on June 2, 2010. Perhaps you can tell us which states you claim adopted it before that date, since you claim it was almost universally adopted "before it was written."

 

[RobRoy]

To get a public school job, most especially high school you have to be a coach. Football and Basketball are the highest royalty in most places. Hockey, wrestling, baseball, track and field - you name it. If you can coach wrestling, you are the math teacher.

This is a gross misstatement of the obvious joke I was making. My wife, mother and sister are all high school teachers. They all have advanced degrees for the subjects they are/were teaching. I volunteer coach the speech and debate at my wife's high school, and interact with a number of teachers on a regular basis. I can assure you that your characterization of high school teaching positions is wholly inaccurate.

 

[fuelair]

Because that is what the parents value. Society. Our culture. In the High Schools the Jocks are Kings. The cheer squad for the girls traditionally, but any athletic girl, yow.

To get a public school job, most especially high school you have to be a coach. Football and Basketball are the highest royalty in most places. Hockey, wrestling, baseball, track and field - you name it. If you can coach wrestling, you are the math teacher.

I have had the same experience as you more than once. In Pennsylvania, the closed-book test had a question on the battle of Pittsburg landing. It was meant by the teacher-coach to be a "gimme" question that everyone could answer because Pittsburg is in Pennsylvania. It was in Tennessee and he marked me wrong. I brought my father's civil war history book to class and showed him. He made me keep it a secret. But he sure had kids laughing at me when I called attention to it in class.

That was protocol for my public school teachers.

When a student and when a teacher there always were a few of that kind in every school I taught in. Most teachers knew who those were - as did many of the students.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Hey, AlaskaBushPilot is back. Swell.
.

Kentucky was the first to adopt and here is an article citing the state board adopted it before release of the alleged core.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/what-kentucky-can-teach-the-rest-of-the-us-about-the-common-core/280453/

But remember the whole effort is about the TEST. The standardized test. The curriculum geared to the test. The teaching methods geared to the test.

Our gradeschool common core historically was reading, writing, and arithmetic. I can say that and have no test, no curriculum, no texts that represent those claims.

The first field testing of Common Core tests were in March 2014. Between 2010 and 2014 a number of industry vendors hired at the request of two groups of states: the Smarter Balanced Assessment Consortium and the Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers, or PARCC wrote, what is in concrete terms the Common Core standardized test.

 

[Minoosh]

Kentucky was the first to adopt and here is an article citing the state board adopted it before release of the alleged core.

That Atlantic article was an interesting but ultimately annoying read. I'm still not sure: What can Kentucky teach the rest of us?

The mix of educator responses to Common Core in Kentucky—and the still-lackluster test scores—suggest it won’t lead to an instant revolution, in Kentucky or elsewhere.

That's it? Education writer stating the obvious is obvious?

Students were actively answering her questions and chiming in with some of their own.

If class discussions are considered a novelty, there's a problem right there.

Superintendent Sprinkles expects a more dramatic shift for most schools, though. “There’s no way a teacher can teach the old way—stand and deliver,” he said.

Though I hate to criticize anyone named Superintendent Sprinkles, the "old way" of teaching - "stand and deliver" - has been obsolete for decades, if not forever. Even the "Stand and Deliver" guy didn't stand and deliver.

If having students doing math in math class is a new technique in rural Kentucky, the problem isn't really the standards, IMO.

Liberty’s math department has made it a point to have students work through the mathematical process on their own instead of listening to lectures.

"Instead." Not, "We'll do this and do that," but, "We'll do this instead of that." That's a problem, I think: Everyone is so eager to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

ETA: Isn't "have students work through the mathematical process on their own" an awfully long way of saying "Work the problem"? All education writing is like this. Except Fred Jones, he's pretty cool.

Students have a checklist to go through when they can’t solve a problem, before turning to the old default of asking a teacher.

I hope students are encouraged to come up with their own checklist - that would be a worthwhile exercise. No, kids don't learn math if you keep doing it for them. I run into resistance from students who need to be trained in patience, in sticking to a procedure for solving a problem. If it's not a two-step problem they can do in their heads, they give up. The problem is often not in their thinking but in their lack of persistence.

Every so-called education reform seems determined to do a 180 to prove how different the new way is from the old. IMO, that's the wrong approach. Lose the more stultifying aspects of endless lecture, but don't abandon lectures. Keep doing what works and try new things.

I know that's more easily said than done. I'm just being grumpy here but really, kids are natural critical thinkers. Try arguing with them. It's fun.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

That Atlantic article was an interesting but ultimately annoying read..

The poster demanded proof anyone had adopted common core before it was written. I gave the Atlantic article as a citation of that.

It is not just literally true about the alleged vague "standards", which only exist in theory and not in practice until there is an actual test written. Curriculum and textbooks have to be aligned to the test. None of that existed as states signed on to common core in order to get federal money.

It has been a huge national de novo experiment. And by Bill Gates' own standards it was successful in making him money but unsuccessful in the alleged academic objectives.

So what now? We're just lost (my family) without Bill Gates leading our education agenda, lol.

 

[Lucian]

There is nothing wrong with standardized testing, which we have been doing for over a century.

I don't know what reasonable person could possibly oppose standardized testing. As homeschoolers, how else are we supposed to gauge our progress? Same with public schools - there are appalling ones and decent ones, and standardized testing is the only way to accomplish a comparison. Parochial schools - same thing.

Common Core, in Bill Gates' vision, was a testing delivery system: computerized online testing. Instead of paper, pencil, and bubbles to fill in. A computer and software for every child, an online interactive test.

We've had to use them. It is infuriating for technical failures. The tests for the entire state of Alaska were cancelled this year because a worker in Kansas severed a cable. We did not sign up for the same test, but we did a battery for both kids. We have to do these advanced placement nonverbal progressive matrices tests too - a few elite public schools like one in NYC do them. I have a hair to move there. So we're training for the test, regardless.

For us what happens is the test is timed. So it takes time to download, to send the answer, to record it, and to come back with the next question. Parts of a question will download, and you cannot figure out how to answer because there is visual material missing.

Paper and pencil tests are bullet proof and they leave permanent evidence of your answers.

According to this article, Alaska hasn't adopted Common Core, so the test that was cancelled was not PARCC or SBAC but rather the Alaska Measures of Progress. How is this the fault of Bill Gates and Common Core? I've worked as a scorer for the written portion of PARCC. I can assure you that not all the tests were taken on computers. Would that they were. Many, many students wrote essays in pencil on paper.