Gaffin quote

[arcticpenguin]

Graffin quote

Greg Graffin is the frontman for the band Bad Religion. Here's a cute excerpt from a recent interview.

http://www.badreligion.com/badreligion/news/news.jsp

Just over a month ago, Bad Religion frontman Greg Graffin did what not many of the pierced and tattooed expect of their punk rock heroes. On Aug. 15, the singer/songwriter who has helped shape the California punk scene for the last 22 years, completed his doctorate in evolutionary biology-paleontology at Cornell University.
...
Graffin, who is known for his socially conscious lyrics, takes the punk rock distrust in dogmatic thinking to the academic level. In his dissertation, which he will soon be working on to convert to book format, Graffin focused on the conflict between evolutionary theory and the tenants of traditional religion.

"I found out something very interesting," Graffin said. "Most evolutionary biologists at the top level see no conflict between evolutionary theory and religion on the one important condition that religion is essentially atheistic."

Edited to add: my apologies for mis-spelling Graffin's name.

 

[Corey]

I don't know if it's still the case, but Bad Religion used to have a yearly scholarship contest for students who write dissertations, something along those lines, on the subject of evolution.

 

[Keneke]

So he's saying that these people are mistaking religions for philosophies?

 

[Corey]

Just for a basic refresher and analysis of the quote in question and the comment about it

According to dictionary.com:

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

My comment: I see this as a product of the modern Judeo Christian traditions of thought, where as the following definitions are a bit more objective and true to the meaning from the roots of the word

2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

[Middle English religioun, from Old French religion, from Latin religi, religin-, perhaps from religre, to tie fast. See rely.]


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Graffen's comments about evolutionary theory not having any specific contradiction to the idea of religion, as long as it is atheistic are more of an indication that religion and theism are not mutually exclusive. That if you believe in creationism evolution is a stark contradiction to your belief, but if you simply have a religious belief apart from Theism, there's no contradiction.

The difference between religion and philosophy is (nothing new here) religion is a belief or practice to you adhere to on a consistent basis (you can clean your house religiously or take your car in for an oil change every 3,000 mi religiously), whereas philosophy is the pursuit of truth and/or knowledge.

Link to the definitions of "philosohpy", since I'm too lazy to cut and past to ellaborate on it.


I don't think Graffen's quote is necessarily universal. One could potentially have a religious belief, not based on Theism with some sort of origin of man story that contradicts evolution. I do think his point that science and religion don't have to be at odds and the religious don't necessarily need to try to change or invalidate science to validate their beliefs, is well taken.

 

[Igopogo]

Interesting stuff. The definitions of so many words have flopped around in my mind the last few days. I feel like Humpty Dumpty in the Alice books, throwing around meanings and words to suit my purpose. Here's how the words jumble in my head at the present moment:


a) philosophy - a quest for discovering truth, order & meaning in the universe.

b) religion - believed discovery of truth, order & meaning in the universe.


when 'a' is locked down it becomes 'b'

when 'b' is set free it becomes 'a'

'a' is theistic, 'b' is atheistic

 

[Yahweh]

"Most evolutionary biologists at the top level see no conflict between evolutionary theory and religion on the one important condition that religion is essentially atheistic."

[semantics]

Religion = Religion
Atheism = Absense of religion

[/semantics]

Something seems odd about that quote...

 

[The Don]

[semantics]

Religion = Religion
Atheism = Absense of religion

[/semantics]

Something seems odd about that quote...

A - theism - lack of gods

Religion could be described as a set of beliefs and rituals

Football (soccer) supporting is often described as a religion. In many ways it is

 

[fishbob]

"I found out something very interesting," Graffin said. "Most evolutionary biologists at the top level see no conflict between evolutionary theory and religion on the one important condition that religion is essentially atheistic."

Don't try to dig for hidden meanings. It's a joke.

 

[arcticpenguin]

Don't try to dig for hidden meanings. It's a joke.

Hey, all the best religions are started as jokes.