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Gabriel Device

CNY_Dave

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Joined
Dec 6, 2008
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153
Have run across a toroid-within-a-toroid over-unity device referred to as a "Gabriel Device", thought I'd find here why people *think* it works (that's the fun part with these things, isn't it?), a bit of searching here didn't turn anything up. Searched on:
"Gabriel Device"
"two toroid"
"bi toroid"
Klingelhoefer
"Thane Heins" has some hits here, but not in relation to toroidal devices.

External link:
http://pesn.com/2011/03/20/9501793_Two_Toroid_Over-Unity_Gabriel_Device_--_Part_1/

Am I just not good at guessing the 'magic word' here or is this a recent "development"?


Dave
 
Gabriel_Device_schematic_bf16.gif


So is the toaster really necessary?
 
Hey, it's not just over-unity, it's also makes a great toasted snack...

My guess is it's the usual high-freq spikes that the meter misses misdirection, was just surprised there wasn't already a file on it here.

Dave
 
Hey. I have the same over-unity device.


And by that, I mean of course, a "wall socket."
 
Uhhh, and what, exactly are the two toroidal coils supposed to do?
Toroidal transformers are certainly extremely useful, and can have high power densities then typical iron laminate transformers, but with a toroid, all coupling between windings must occur on the same core.
Two separate cores won't magnetically couple to any significant amount (in essence, toroidal inductors and transformers are self-shielding electromagnetically).
 
Uhhh, and what, exactly are the two toroidal coils supposed to do?
Toroidal transformers are certainly extremely useful, and can have high power densities then typical iron laminate transformers, but with a toroid, all coupling between windings must occur on the same core.
Two separate cores won't magnetically couple to any significant amount (in essence, toroidal inductors and transformers are self-shielding electromagnetically).

I don't know what the supposed mechanism is, besides the claim the inner core must be of very high magnetic permeability, and the outer core of lesser.

Dave
 
Uhhh, and what, exactly are the two toroidal coils supposed to do?
Toroidal transformers are certainly extremely useful, and can have high power densities then typical iron laminate transformers, but with a toroid, all coupling between windings must occur on the same core.
Two separate cores won't magnetically couple to any significant amount (in essence, toroidal inductors and transformers are self-shielding electromagnetically).

The idea is that the blue toroid is inside of the grey toroid.

What's going on? The usual---someone built a weird transformer, plugged it into two kill-a-watt meters and a light bulb, and got confused.

Protip: buy a two-channel analog oscilloscope on EBay for $100. Without one, your odds of success are identically zero. (By "success" of course I mean "correctly understanding your circuit". If by "success" you mean "convincing yourself that you've discovered free energy", your odds are of course much higher with no oscilloscope.)
 
I don't know what the supposed mechanism is, besides the claim the inner core must be of very high magnetic permeability, and the outer core of lesser.

Dave

Hahaha! thanks for that laugh. Of course, that would make a difference! By using an inner core with 'higher permeability', of course we can extract much more energy then is actually provided by a 'low permeability' core.

What was I thinking? Infinatez wattz! I'm Jelly!
 
Very funny, as usual for these 'inventions'. Note the usual distinct underkill in the application proposals:

David has several ideas for how this technology could be utilized. One possibility is that it could be used to power appliances directly. A small input could produce an output large enough to power an air conditioner, refrigerator, etc. Another possibility is connecting one of these devices between the power line and your home. If the output of one of these devices could be scaled up (or more than one of them utilized) you could power your home while consuming little if any real power. Finally, he imagines a setup where these devices could be built, used to power your home, but the excess could be sold back to the power company.

Hellooo, man! Let it power itself, build a huge device and wipe out all competition in the international power market. Now laugh all the way to the bank.

.....

Seriously, his explanation is fundamentally flawed. The back EMF does not govern the primary current of a transformer the way he claims, but through self-induction. If there is no load on the secondary, the magnet field built in each half-period inducts a back-EMF in the primary coil, and this reduces the current (ideally to zero). However, when you load the secondary, it taps some of the energy that would have produced the back EMF, and thus reduces it, making the primary current rise accordingly.

In the ideal transformer, this means that the same amount of energy tapped from the secondary has to be fed to the primary. In a real transformer, you need to add losses.

So what is happening for this fellow? Well two possibilities:

1) It is a scam. He knows it doesn't work and is simply rigging the figures in hopes of gaining fame and/or money.

2) He really thinks it works. In this case, he is probably being fooled by phase-shift. Building an true AC power meter is not simple, so most manufacturers use constructions that work on derived values. Such derivals assume that the current and voltage are reasonably in phase. However, big, strange coil constructions are VERY likely to cause huge phase shifts, causing his power meters to produce strange readings.

Hans
 
3rd rule of over-unity: It's always the phase-shift...

Heard about this one on a model-airplane forum, of all places.

Dave
 

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