Gable Tostee
- Thread starter Samson
- Start date
Hard Cheese
Critical Thinker
It comes under the general definition of murder, kidnapping is an unlawful purpose and the question is whether a judge/jury considers locking a drunk person out on a balcony reasonably likely to endanger their life.
They could have easily charged him with manslaughter or reckless conduct endangering life, so I imagine they have more evidence up their sleeves.
Hard to imagine what further evidence. It's a bit of a goldmine with that 3 hour tape. The question must be whether he is alleged to be holding her for more sex, unlikely, or to avoid trouble with the police he expected her to cause.
It's a bit early for that, lionking, if they miss with murder is it ok for him to walk free?
No we don't have the equivalent of felony murder in Australia. Murder or manslaughter. The audio points to pre-meditated murder here.
Your ability to give the benefit of the doubt to violent angry males, like Pistorius, is staggering. And completely wrong.
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There are parallels between many cases. Here I would contend neither Pistorius nor Tostee started the day expecting to face murder charges and in both cases there are sound reasons that actions they took were not calculated to result in the deaths of the women they spent the night with.
Simply calling them both murderers lacks a little finesse.
But that's enough from me on Pistorius.
My understanding is that he's only been charged with murder.
The prosecutors and defense agreed to go sraight to trial last October when he was first charged over the night in question.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-tourist-warriena-wright-20151014-gk8yo6.html
I'm not sure if there are options for a reduction in severity of charge to be pled.
I've followed the story since it happened, and really can't see murder being proven. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of intent.
I won't be unhappy to be wrong though. He is a douche. As shown by his active social media prescence before, and after the death of Ms Wright.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
dup
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quadraginta
Becoming Beth
See, that's the thing about felony murder; "a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), he/she is guilty of murder."
It isn't always necessary to have been the offender who kills. It might also be anyone else who was a participant in the crime. Or none of them. I've read of at least one case where a cop shot and killed one of the participants in an armed robbery as they were trying to get away, and the other was charged with felony murder.
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Apparently in Australia it is called "constructive murder, and seems very similar;
So it appears possible that if Tostee is being charged with a crime which could get him 25 years (kidnapping?) then a constructive murder charge might possibly go with it.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
Based only on what you quoted and described I would decide wrongful death or involuntary homicide ETA felony murder sound right. The man was sober and should not have imprisonned somebody drunk in a situation where the person could easily and did imperil themselves.
The correct way to handle the situation would have been , leave the person, call the police outside, let the police handle everything.
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He had the intent to force her out on to the balcony in an aggressive, violent way, at the very least. And I will contend he caused her to fear for her life. She attempted to escape that threat. That's enough. Murder.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
Samson just out of curiosity what do you do in life ? This is the third or fourth thread I see you defending people's action when they are accused.
My understanding is that constructive murder was only available in Victoria (and is not now) but not in Queensland, where the offence occurred.
Excellent. That should cover it. I'm not aware of a kidnapping charge though.
I guess we can suppose the prosecutors have this in mind. He did essentially kidnap her, and in the process she died.
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quadraginta
Becoming Beth
Okay.
I didn't really take the time to dig down to that level of detail.
There's apparently forty six states in the U.S. with felony murder statutes of some sort, but even with that they are not all the same.
What I was trying to determine was if a similar concept was current in Australia. It seems that it is, dependent on jurisdiction.
And that would null and void my suppositions .....
I think this is the relevant link. I think it's covered under section 1(b)
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s302.html
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From what I've read it is not available in any Australian jurisdiction now.
1 (b) seems to cover the case here.
I run a business like most New Zealanders one way or other. I got interested when I realised there is endemic corruption in the NZ police, the way they prosecute murders and get the wrong answer. Thomas, Tamihere, Pora, Bain, Lundy, MacDonald. Maybe Watson, all in a country of a few million.
Total compensation to that lot, 3 million, total jail wrongly served, 82 years and counting.
Of course it doesn't really matter, a kind of reverse lotto win.
It seems to matter to them and their families though.
This guy Tostee is accused of murder which is absurd. It looks like a prize cockup to me. There must be a range of charges they could throw the book at him for, instead he has to walk.