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further thoughts of Penn and Teller

KAW143

Student
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
39
Am I the only one who thinks that the penn and teller show (title edited for the discreet) should be a bit longer -- at least forty-five minutes, if not an hour? It seems that they occasionally need to overstate their cases, somewhat, for the sake of brevity -- and let's face it, debunking is an activity that takes some time! Take Thurdsday's episode on recycling, for example. One argument they "debunked" was the notion that recycling creates nice, high-paying jobs. To "prove" this, they showed a bunch of people in masks and gloves going through a bunch of garbage and topped it off with an overdub full of rather florid language to the effect of, "This is a good job? That's Bull****!" Granted, sifting through garbage is a job that many of us might find distasteful, but I did not find that this segment very convincing. Perhaps the sifters in question DID like the job, did find the money they were making commensurate with the effort they were putting forth. even a single blurb with a worker saying, "Yeah, it sucks and I still can't make rent" might have won me over. Yet there was no such blurb.

Understand, I am not saying that they do not have valid points that should not be aired, I am simply saying that, occasionally, they take on topics which should be given more comprehensive treatment. Whereas I understand the premise of the show, that to call something by a vulgar name is less litigious than something more polite, I occasionally feel as if they use the vulgarity as a crutch to overstep subjects which I, personally, feel need more discussion.

Am I being too knee-jerk in my reaction, here? I am hardly a prude (in fact, I can cuss up a purple streak with the best of them, should the mood suit me), but, just occasionally, I feel that P&T are falling into a reductionist trap, here. Instead of always dealing with every topic fully, sometimes, they throw soundbites at a point to simply toss it under a rug and move on. Frankly, I think this show could do wonders to further critical thinking, but the way some shows are stuctured, it feels as if the two are simply trying to preach to the choir. And I don't care if they reach the choir; we're already singing. A bit more time might make this the groundbreaking show that, in my opinion, the world so desperately needs, right now. Any thoughts?
 
"Oversimplification", perhaps. However, I see this as overly reducing the complexities of the issue to better fit into a given space of time, hence the word "reductionist".

Now that I think of it, I, myself was engaging in the very practice pf which I was accuzing P&T. To save space, I used the term "reductionist", which is a rather popular buzzword. Sorry.
 
KAW143 said:
One argument they "debunked" was the notion that recycling creates nice, high-paying jobs. To "prove" this, they showed a bunch of people in masks and gloves going through a bunch of garbage and topped it off with an overdub full of rather florid language to the effect of, "This is a good job? That's Bull****!"

There are two ways to be paid well: be able to do something that not many people can do or be willing to do something that not many people want to do. Them's the breaks.
 
I must admit, my gut feeling (and in saying this, I'd strongly suggest for a real answer, maybe the Showtime site or P&T's own site would be a better place to get an official response) is that to have the gall to broadcast that, they would have made bloody sure that their research backed up what they found.

I guess I could be called just naive, but I don't think that they'd put their beliefs on the line backed with shoddy research. But then, I also know how documentaries and other non-fiction screenings can alter the 'truth' - there is no such thing as an unbiased broadcast. It's one of the reasons I wanted to use it with a class one day. The spirit behind it just prompts debate!

Comprehensive treatment might be better served with a documentary... but even then, there are plenty of documentaries out there which are very doubtful (ahem, Riefenstahl, ahack, Moore, ahem cough...) so perhaps this is the best format they could do (ooh, a book would be great though...) to get their message across on the TV station... maybe they (Showtime) had a say in it too in terms of what fitted in with their broadcasting times?

I certainly agree that what the final polished product gives us doesn't always reflect days and months of planning and research etc. that the show does. But I'd rather watch it than a dull documentary which pretends to be unbiased. This at least flies the skeptic flag proudly. Something I know a lot of people just don't comphrend - I have a few friends who in the past equated skeptic with cynic. :(

(edited for clarity... it's been a LONG week.... :( )
 
Kiless said:
I'd strongly suggest for a real answer, maybe the Showtime site... would be a better place to get an official response)

I hate bleeding Showtime and their stupid website which, when I try and view it, simply says:

"We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States."

Well, if that's your attitude pal, why are your shows on air in the UK? I bet if your web site was pay-per-view you'd let us look at it.

Toss-monkeys.
 
TheBoyPaj said:


I hate bleeding Showtime and their stupid website which, when I try and view it, simply says:

"We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States."

Well, if that's your attitude pal, why are your shows on air in the UK? I bet if your web site was pay-per-view you'd let us look at it.

Toss-monkeys.


Know what you mean - another smegging USA site claiming that us lot overseas can't see it... hmph! There's some advice on the P&T site - try this:

www.proxify.com

It enables you to access the site (but not use bulletin boards... hmph again!) as it blocks where you're accessing from.
 
If recycling in general doesn't do any economic or environmental good (except for aluminum), then the people who work at recycling plants are wasting their time, no matter how much they get paid and no matter how much they might love their work.

In terms of usefulness to society, we may as well be paying half of them to dig a ditch and the other half to fill it in.
 

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