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Fun With Flags

Ivor the Engineer

Penultimate Amazing
Ivor the Engineer
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
10,600
How do you feel when you see your national flag?

How much of your standard of living has been contingent on your country installing friendly dictators, imposing "free" trade on countries with less developed economies, proxy wars, etc.?

I don't think any person from a developed country should feel anything but shame in what their national flag represents.
 
We could get back to a modified imperialism, invade, get rid of the murderous kleptocrats, and have freedom there as here.

During the Cold War, the US did the right thing with Cuba. Castro ran off to the US to be received as a hero, and got rebuffed and ran off to the Soviet Union instead.

Well, it turns out having US-friendly dictators not adding their sickly amount of economic power to the big bads was marginally better, "so be it".

I can wish, too. What's the real solution? Modified imperialism is difficult, costly, and risks lives, and requires longer commitment than we're willing to do anymore. The last success was South Korea, and that had some decades with dictatorship anyway.

Leaving them alone just maintains dictatorship even without the context of a big bad. Which is China nowadays anyway, full-throatedly supporting dictators to induce China-friendly policies.

How powerful of a wishing genie do we need to achieve your goal?
 
Some ideas (not mine, but seem reasonable):

Write off debt that developing countries have already paid the principal back many times over?

Allow developing countries to invest in their public services and infrastructure rather than forcing them to turn their whole economy to paying back the interest on debt?

Stop inflicting free trade rules on developing countries that cannot compete because they have had insufficient time to develop their industries?

Stop corporations suing nation states whose policies hurt their profits?
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
How do you feel when you see your national flag?

How much of your standard of living has been contingent on your country installing friendly dictators, imposing "free" trade on countries with less developed economies, proxy wars, etc.?

I don't think any person from a developed country should feel anything but shame in what their national flag represents.
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Nations often do good things and sometimes do bad things. Same for individuals.

Do you look in the mirror and judge your present feelings about yourself by your worst past actions? I don't. I net it out.
 
Honestly? I feel it's a little tacky. So busy! I'd prefer a more simplistic, elegant design. The flag of Canada, for instance. Two colors, symmetrical, and a unique and obvious symbol in the middle which can easily be used to represent the flag by itself in other designs. The US flag's colors are too bold-- that shade of red and blue clash. It's jarring even when there aren't so many stripes. And fifty little stars? No wonder people mistake the flag of Liberia for the US's in emoji form. I think the US flag could use a redesign, but it would cost the earth and be so controversial so I doubt it'll ever get one. I suppose it's not entirely terrible: at least the asymmetry looks interesting on swimsuits and underwear.
 
Thermal said:
Nations often do good things and sometimes do bad things. Same for individuals.

Do you look in the mirror and judge your present feelings about yourself by your worst past actions? I don't. I net it out.
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What makes you think anything I've mentioned is in the past?
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
Prodding myself to see if I have died or this is reality.
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Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

Seriously, though. Any action or nation can be viewed in its most negative light, if we choose to. When I see the flag, I often think about my grandparents lighting out of Germany when this unpleasant dude was getting popular. Then I think about what those flying that flag did to that unpleasant dude.
 
Thermal said:
Is that what the kids call it nowadays?

Seriously, though. Any action or nation can be viewed in its most negative light, if we choose to. When I see the flag, I often think about my grandparents lighting out of Germany when this unpleasant dude was getting popular. Then I think about what those flying that flag did to that unpleasant dude.
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The just and good things developed countries have done are blips in history compared to the hundreds of years of evil and cruel things they have done and continue to do, usually so elites can increase their wealth and power.
 
I was born under one flag, now live under another.
One was a right leaning democracy, the current is a socialistic democracy.

As a member of the general public it's really hard to tell the difference in daily life. Pride in the flag, the behavior of the government, the general levels of safety and all is the same. Good and bad in both.

Patriots in both nations, the anthems and national holidays are all just arbitrary to me. Hang with the good people, be a good person and life is good.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
How do you feel when you see your national flag?

How much of your standard of living has been contingent on your country installing friendly dictators, imposing "free" trade on countries with less developed economies, proxy wars, etc.?

I don't think any person from a developed country should feel anything but shame in what their national flag represents.
Click to expand...
This seems like a profoundly joyless way to live.
 
I have never, from my earliest memories, felt anything but distaste, at times verging on disgust at the Stars and Stripes. It is garish, so I suppose it represents the country in that sense. It is ubiquitous, on all media and signage anywhere I go. It is a bespangled whore servicing the Dicktraitor and his minions.
 
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A crucifix is a piece of wood and a flag is but a bit of cloth.
Yet these two insignificant items have historically caused many deaths.

We never really fight for the flag. We fight against those who would take what we choose to defend.
 
I am in two minds about this.
On the one hand, the availability of national borders is what has kept the world comparatively safe. On the other hand it brings a whole lot of problems.
A Flag is just a sticker to make it easier to distinguish on territory from another on a map - any feelings beyond that are artificially created.

I think the world would benefit from a lot more zones of free movement of people and money like in the EU: people literally don't think much about traveling to other member States, as money, most laws, mobile phone contracts, driver's licenses etc.etc. work everywhere the same; you might not even notice that you've crossed a border.

Nation States as a rule shouldn't take themselves so seriously.
They are, after all, entirely artificial constructs.
 
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