Freedom of Speech

[Mycroft]

Intifada Against College Republicans

San Francisco, November 1, 2004- A mob of Arab students at San Francisco State University attacked a group of College Republicans on the San Francisco State University campus at noon today during a “Turnout the Vote” event in front of the campus student union building.

Derek Wray, President of the SFSU College Republicans, told Front Page Magazine that an angry mob of Palestinian students attacked the club’s table, as well as individual members of the Republican club who were handing out pro-Bush/Cheney campaign materials. According to Wray, campus police were nearby, but “just stood around watching and, instead of protecting the College Republican students from the mob that was pouring drinks on our table and materials, and even physically assaulting our members, only suggested that the campus Republicans leave rather than arrest those responsible for the violence.”

Wray said the incident began when four Palestinian women from the General Union of Palestinian Students (GUPS) on the S.F. State campus approached the CRs’ table and began a verbal tirade. “You and the Jews want to kill all the Muslims!” one screamed at Wray. “You and Ariel Sharon want to kill innocent Palestinian babies.” A larger crowd of male Arab students then joined in creating a threatening mob in front of the table.

“When one of the Republican students asked one of the women that if she hated America so much, why she didn’t leave, she screamed at him ‘I have some pride. I would strap a bomb on myself and blow myself up as a suicide bomber rather than call myself an American,’”according to Wray. He said the woman also ranted that terrorists are “freedom fighters.”

“One woman said she’d blow up the College Republicans on campus,” Wray continued. “They began throwing food at us and even tried to tip over our table.” The campus police did nothing. Instead of separating them from our table, they kept pulling me aside and asking if we were willing to leave.”

One of the Arab women even began hitting one of the male college Republicans who deflected her blows with his arms. “She got right into his face screaming and trying to hit him. When he deflected one of her blows she then yelled to the male Arabs present that the Republican student was hitting a woman.” This is a tactic used frequently in demonstrations lately, where pro-Palestinian demonstrators send women in to physically assault demonstrators from opposing groups then claim that women are being attacked when they are physically stopped by victims.

Source

I dunno, the America I'm proud to be a citizen of respects the rights of everyone to voice their opinion.

 

[Patrick]

You don't know this is old news? Jewish students were also attacked about three years ago at the same university by arab/leftist rabble while police (don't remember if it was campus or SF police) stood by and did nothing. After the attacks, Jewish campus organizations had meetings with YAF, a strange experience for them because as jews most were steeped in the "progressive" tradition. Are you aware of the PC speech codes at universities, and the endless harassment and brownshirt campus attacks against conservative student newspapers, organizations, and non-PC speakers invited to campus by conservative groups? The center of suppression of speech in america is the universities, but occurs in the wider social context of suppression of religious expression in public and corporate settings, and suppression of political speech (free political speech being the very soul of the First Amendment)by "campaign reform" legislation.

 

[Richard G]

The Palestinian rats are probably here on student visas. They should be rounded up and deported.

Lets see...angry mob of arab terrorist sympathizers physicaly assaulting me? Thats earns a double tap, one to the chest, one to the head. Thats would have gotten the rent-a-cops sorry assed attention wouldn't it?

 

[Tony]

Isn't the religion of peace beautiful?

 

[Dorian Gray]

Freedom of speech doesn't include hitting me, pouring drinks on my shiznit, or hassling me. I think using the tactic of shouting at the top of my lungs "Listen, lady, I am NOT paying you $100 to sleep with me, so leave me alone!" would have been appropriate.

Jewish students were also attacked about three years ago at the same university by arab/leftist rabble while police (don't remember if it was campus or SF police) stood by and did nothing.

Why do you differentiate between Jews and the left? Jews are ON the left.

And tony, you can't judge a billion people by the actions of a few douche bags. It would be like looking at Timothy McVeigh or the KKK and saying "Isn't the religion of the Holy Trinity beautiful?"

 

[Tony]

And tony, you can't judge a billion people by the actions of a few douche bags.

This is a strawman, I'm not judging a billion people by the actions of a few. I'm judging a relgion by the actions of it's followers worldwide.

It would be like looking at Timothy McVeigh or the KKK and saying "Isn't the religion of the Holy Trinity beautiful?"

I don't know how Tim McVeigh (someone who went on record saying he had lost touch with religion) plays into this, but the KKK (among other things) is evidence of how ugly christianity is.

 

[Dorian Gray]

This is a strawman, I'm not judging a billion people by the actions of a few. I'm judging a relgion by the actions of it's followers worldwide.

Exactly - you are judging a religion with a billion followers by the actions of a tiny percentage of its followers. A few thousand people are a tiny percentage of a billion. Just as the KKK are a tiny percentage of all Christianity.

I don't know how Tim McVeigh (someone who went on record saying he had lost touch with religion) plays into this, but the KKK (among other things) is evidence of how ugly christianity is.

Islamofascists arguably have lost touch with their religion as well - I don't know how those people are evidence of how ugly Islam is. The vast majority of Christians and Muslims are peaceful and kind people who are just trying to live their lives.

I don't judge EITHER religion by the actions of nutjobs, who by definition are not the norm. I suggest you refrain from doing so, and you can start by not making blanket generalizations. The main reason for not doing so is the fact that Afghanistan and Iraq, however democratized they may become, will remain Islamic nations. Thus, by damning Islam even in jest, you attack our allies. Why would you want to do that?

Instead, you should attack the extreme fundamentalists of both Christianity and Islam. They are the ones egging on the wars and violence that most people don't want. (Just to be clear, I don't consider Bush to be "egging on" any war.)

 

[Nikk]

I think using the tactic of shouting at the top of my lungs "Listen, lady, I am NOT paying you $100 to sleep with me, so leave me alone!" would have been appropriate.

Great line! I must remember it .

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Mycroft,
I have a hard time believing you posted this as a trusted source. The whole site is one rabidly pro Israel site, with an author ( click on his name to see other articles) who has a history of unreasonable rants.

I tried to google an indie source such as the SF Chronicle or LA Times and Nada. The incident probably did take place but in looking at the editorial stance of the published article, the authors background as well as the publications background, it seems more an enhanced fabrication then a genuine vetted article.

I would no more go to that publication for objectivity then I would go for trvth to a jehadist site.

If the case is indeed true then people need to be fired, if not ( which I suspect is more correct) then the claims withdrawn. You should make more distinction as to your sources then add to the rumor hotline.
If you find INDEPENDENT info feel free to post it , all the referrals I found to be circular and self-referencing.

I do however agree that the bastion of "Free thought" the American university system is becoming politically more attuned to the left then the right.

 

[Tony]

Exactly - you are judging a religion with a billion followers by the actions of a tiny percentage of its followers. A few thousand people are a tiny percentage of a billion. Just as the KKK are a tiny percentage of all Christianity.

You miss the point, judging the religion itself is not neccessarily judging it's followers.

Islamofascists arguably have lost touch with their religion as well - I don't know how those people are evidence of how ugly Islam is.

History says otherwise.

The vast majority of Christians and Muslims are peaceful and kind people who are just trying to live their lives.

I can't believe this canard gets repeated ad nausium. Can you provide evidence that the vast majority of muslims (and christians) are peacful people and/or shun terrorism?

Thus, by damning Islam even in jest, you attack our allies. Why would you want to do that?

They're not my allies.

Instead, you should attack the extreme fundamentalists of both Christianity and Islam.

That's what I'm doing.

 

[plindboe]

That article just reeks of bias. I can imagine something did happen, but I very much doubt it happened as described. It's sad when people forget all about skepticism whenever they read something that validates their beliefs. I believe this is known as confirmation bias.

 

[Patrick]

Why do you differentiate between Jews and the left? Jews are ON the left.


Yeah sure, like Bill Kristol, David Horowitz, David Frum, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, and Jonah Goldberg.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Freedom of speech is a great thing. I hope your spirits were raised Mycroft, like mine were, when you read this example of the 1st Amendment being alive and well, even in Bush's America.

 

[Mycroft]

Freedom of speech is a great thing. I hope your spirits were raised Mycroft, like mine were, when you read this example of the 1st Amendment being alive and well, even in Bush's America.

In your country, does freedom of speech include threats, and physical harassment?

In your country, if you organized a "turnout the vote" event which was disrupted by others coming to your table, spilling drinks on it, verbally harassing you and issuing death threats and the police were to ask you to leave, would you think your rights to free speech had been protected?

 

[Art Vandelay]

And tony, you can't judge a billion people by the actions of a few douche bags. It would be like looking at Timothy McVeigh or the KKK and saying "Isn't the religion of the Holy Trinity beautiful?"

This isn't a matter of "a few douche bags". Support for this kind of behavior, and worse, is widespread in the Muslim world. And yes, I do think the KKK does reflect badly on Christianity.

 

[daenku32]

Could it be that Derek Wray was lying? I don't find any other sources that FrontPage Magazine regarding the incident.

 

[BPSCG]

This isn't a matter of "a few douche bags". Support for this kind of behavior, and worse, is widespread in the Muslim world. And yes, I do think the KKK does reflect badly on Christianity.

I don't understand how the KKK reflects on Christianity at all. Are there Christian clergymen preaching God wants Christians to murder blacks and Jews? Are there teachings in the Gospels quoting Jesus as saying blacks and Jews are inferior to whites and Christians?

Someone please enlighten me; I must have missed all that in Sunday school.

 

[Grammatron]

I don't understand how the KKK reflects on Christianity at all. Are there Christian clergymen preaching God wants Christians to murder blacks and Jews? Are there teachings in the Gospels quoting Jesus as saying blacks and Jews are inferior to whites and Christians?

Someone please enlighten me; I must have missed all that in Sunday school.

There are churches like that. I'll find some links unless somebody beats me to it.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

BPSCG

I will add to Grammatron 's voice, that their are many examples of that kind of intolerant behavior taken to the extreme. I will also endeavor to post examples altho because I cannot recite them from memory , does not make them rare.

 

[BPSCG]

I will add to Grammatron 's voice, that their are many examples of that kind of intolerant behavior taken to the extreme. I will also endeavor to post examples altho because I cannot recite them from memory , does not make them rare.

I'm not talking about the rabble followers of a particular faith. I'm talking about the leaders of the faith. Where in the Gospels does it condone murder, or even killing, for that matter? Show me where Jesus said you should kill the unbeliever if you can't convert him. Show me the Southern Baptist preacher who advocates horsewhipping "n!ggers" (apologies for the language, but I hope you understand the context).

People are quick to find a moral equivalence between the Christian and the Muslim fundamentalists. But it was an imam, not a preacher, who handed down a fatwa ordering the murder of Salman Rushdie. It's the Koran, not the Gospels, that portrays its heroic central character as someone who slaughters his enemies.

The only thing the KKK has in common with Christianity is the prominent use of a cross and robes in its rituals. I repeat - the KKK does not reflect on Christianity at all. If you think it does, ask yourself what Jesus would have to say to a Grand Wizard of the Klan.