Flu Shots

[robinson]

Ah, I missed that. It seems to be in reference to how ardent some are here at supporting flu shots no matter what evidence is presented. Don't you wish somebody would pay you for all the time you wast... um... spend here educating people and stuff?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

There actually was a marketing scheme he is referring to, Eos. It was for some youth consumer market. I'll see if I can Google it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's a newer version.

a new era for advertisers, in which commercials are replaced by messages planted in online conversations between friends.

I'll keep looking for the pioneer event and the product they were selling.

 

[robinson]

Gibson wrote about this in Pattern Recognition.

Lonely Girl from YT is an example of viral marketing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's another one, still not the original though.

Sony pays PR firm to lie about wanting a PSP for Christmas

 

[Eos of the Eons]

So, why is dab mentioning it, and in what context, for in this thread? He's the only one advertising, and for Viagra of all things. What is his point exactly?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So, why is dab mentioning it, and in what context, for in this thread? He's the only one advertising, and for Viagra of all things. What is his point exactly?

I missed the Viagra reference. Dab implied I was a drug company chat plant:

I'm not pointing fingers.* Just the sheer number of posts of the virtually same story is suspicious.

Do you think no one here is paid to plant opinion as a viral marketing scheme? Companies pay 6 digits and more for their web site that no one looks at. Would you think that they didn't pay anyone to plant things at sites that people do look at?

And I'm not even thinking of a gullible doctor who simply repeats whatever marketing crap he was conned with at his seminars. But that's part of viral marketing too. It's fake mouth to mouth propaganda.

I'm just thinking of Wikipedia. What's the percentage of paid, intellectually dishonest marketing folks in the top 1000 editors there?

As someone who has been there both as an observer and participants, I'd say you get close to 30-50% near the top 50 and still a two digit figure in the top 500. Some people are just addicted. But its an addiction to both learning and communication (both are basic drives, instincts to speak) too many are way dishonest. Of course to be good at this, one cannot too stubbornly give away his paid-for stance. It's simple enough to dismiss any counterarguments and go on to discredit the other source.

Or what you also did. You give me right with the false diagnosis problem, saying it was the only thing that was true in my post. Right. The only thing. Incompetent doctors are the problem, not the Pharma industry. <points finger>*

Poor poor pharma companies and their low low return of investments. We should have the government give subsidies to them. Maybe we can force everyone to use their products. Lets make it something that at least sounds sensible. Like forcing every kid to be vaccinated before it can enter a public school?

*Well I guess I am pointing fingers now after all

Then Linda just caved and let all the cats out of the bags.




I forgot to comment on the, "gullible doctor who simply repeats whatever marketing crap he was conned with at his seminars". There must also be a conspiracy to keep people like you out of med school, eh Dabljuh? I bet it's frustrating to know with your superior intellect you could out do the best of them, but there's that darn screening process the pharmaceutical companies control. They only want dupes. Except the neurosurgeons. They do let in would be doctors who might make good neurosurgeons even if they aren't dupes. Maybe you could be a neurosurgeon, Dabljuh.

 

[Ove]

I addressed the shortage issue, see my previous posts. Regarding the week in bed thing, believe what you want. The actual data is the influenza virus causes serious disease including pneumonia and death. If you think that isn't the case then post some actual science not your misinformed opinion.

Regarding the "being forced to get a flu shot", do you work in a hospital or other health care setting? That is the only adult vaccine requirement I can think of which fits your description. In the case of hospitals and other health care inpatient settings, the evidence is the staff bring the flu virus into the hospital and patients become infected. Some of them then die from the infections they acquired from the health care provider. Just as hospitals strive to decrease the spread of nosocomial infections to the patients by having health care workers practice good infection control technique, employers have every right to require employees get flu shots to protect the patients. Employees have to by law get TB skin tests to work in the hospitals here. The employees superstitious beliefs about flu vaccinations is not a sufficient reason to put patients at risk. Go work somewhere else if you think it infringes on your rights. What about the rights of the patients not to be put at risk because of someone's superstitious fears?

And like it or not, the recommendations come from a panel of experts who do a thorough evaluation of the research. The fact some not-even-medically-educated maybe not-even-college-graduates believe they personally are more qualified and have done a more thorough job of reviewing the literature does not place the opinions of the experts in question.

Sorry i dont think you understand. I live in DENMARK. Things are quite different over here and mostly to the better IF you had bothered to look up my data in stead of releasing a bucket of venom you 'might have found an explanation to the differencies. Some compagnies over here HAVE made attempts to bully their employees into taking the shot and frankly i fail to see how you should know anything about that and NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOSPITAL STAFF or other care related jobs but industrial work.

Do i make myself clear?

And before you put your head too much at rest at that pillow called "a panel of experts" let me remind you that american "panel of experts" during the last century has made a number of ga-ga recommendations. Example: Lobotomy in much too many cases, Male circumsion to prevent penile cancer, Thalidomid against pains during pregnancy, DDT Powdering over entire cities to wipe out bugs, ..... The list is endless

But to your information. The Danish "Serum institute" which is a goverment fundet medical board advises to vaccinate.

1.People over 65 and residents at nursing homes and similar
2.People with lung diseases and heart/cardial diseases.
3.People with aquiered or obtained defects in their immune system
4.People working in health care, educational institutions and day care.

Period......

 

[Professor Yaffle]

And before you put your head too much at rest at that pillow called "a panel of experts" let me remind you that american "panel of experts" during the last century has made a number of ga-ga recommendations. Example: Lobotomy in much too many cases, Male circumsion to prevent penile cancer, Thalidomid against pains during pregnancy, DDT Powdering over entire cities to wipe out bugs, ..... The list is endless

Uh oh... He's mentioned the C word...

 

[robinson]

Be sure and focus on that, and ignore everything else.

 

[Dabljuh]

Wow, Skeptigirl, here I was, thinking that the entire system of academia (Which I have visited for a few years) was entirely built up on

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 9 removed.

And then you come here and destroy my opinion on academia with one single argument. Neurosurgeons. Bravo. Why didn't I think of that.

 

[Chris Haynes]

...And before you put your head too much at rest at that pillow called "a panel of experts" let me remind you that american "panel of experts" during the last century has made a number of ga-ga recommendations. Example: ..., Thalidomid against pains during pregnancy, ...
.......

Ove, enlighten me... All this time I was under the impression that the USA was one country that did not allow thalidomide to be approved for sale (though it is now approved for certain things, like leprosy). Did someone actually disregard Dr. Frances Kelsey's concerns?

 

[fls]

Ove,

I just wanted to give you a quick heads-up, so you have a chance to edit your post before Skeptigirl sees it. You won't help your case if you say a bunch of stuff that is wrong. For example, thalidomide was never approved in the US, let alone for pregnancy pains, expert panels recommend against the use of circumcision for the purpose of preventing penile cancer, etc.

Hope this helps.

Linda

 

[fls]

Dabljuh,

If that's what you spent all your time doing during your brief stint in academia, it would explain quite a lot.

Linda

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Uh oh... He's mentioned the C word...

I wondered why the flashing light and claxton had gone off.

Just to clarify Linda's misunderstanding (or is it misdirection - she might be being paid to plant false info.) of Ove's claim, US doctors did promote circumcision for many years on shaky or no evidence. Only since the 1970's have professional bodies there started to say it's not worth while (medically).

As an interesting little aside, I've recently purchased Gray's Anatomy for Students. Looking at the section on male genitalia, there is no mention or photos of the prepuce at all! Even in my other (American) anatomy book, the only mention of the male prepuce is along the lines of "this is the bit which is removed during circumcision." Medical students in the US must think foreskin on a male child is a deformity which needs to be removed, kind of like a 6th finger.

 

[Dabljuh]

Ivor, but we must unquestioningly accept all opinions from people who are obviously better educated on the subject than we are. After all that is the true path of a skeptic!

 

[Dabljuh]

Dabljuh,

If that's what you spent all your time doing during your brief stint in academia, it would explain quite a lot.

Linda

Look, the problem is intrinsic to any system where new members are selected by and through the old members.

I'm almost certain there's a specific name for that sociological phenomenon. Does anyone know the name for that, so it can be googled?

 

[fls]

Look, the problem is intrinsic to any system where new members are selected by and through the old members.

...must...resist...

...circumcision...joke...bad...

...very bad...

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Look, the problem is intrinsic to any system where new members are selected by and through the old members.

I'm almost certain there's a specific name for that sociological phenomenon. Does anyone know the name for that, so it can be googled?

In-Group bias.

 

[Dabljuh]

How about "Groupthink"