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Flu Shots

eeyore1954

Philosopher
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
6,811
Are flu shots just another money making gimmick? Do they protect only against previous years strains and are not effective against yet unknown strains? Is real influenza pretty rare and when most people say the got the flu the didn't have it and it was not something that would have been stopped by the shot.
 
Well, according to the Cochrane Database, which is an independent organization that compiles currently-available data and is considered the gold standard for evidence-based medicine, there isn't a lot of evidence to support routine flu vaccines.

Preventing flu among healthy adults:
Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing serologically confirmed cases of influenza. However, they are not as effective in reducing cases of clinical influenza and number of working days lost. Universal immunisation of healthy adults is not supported by the results of this review.

Preventing flu among elderly:
In long-term care facilities, where vaccination is most effective against complications, the aims of the vaccination campaign are fulfilled, at least in part. However, according to reliable evidence the usefulness of vaccines in the community is modest. The apparent high effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing death from all causes may reflect a baseline imbalance in health status and other systematic differences in the two groups of participants.

Preventing flu among patients with cystic fibrosis:
There is currently no evidence from randomised studies that influenza vaccine given to people with CF is of benefit to them. There remains a need for a well-constructed clinical study, that assesses the effectiveness of influenza vaccination on important clinical outcome measures.

Preventing flu among children:
Influenza vaccines are efficacious in children older than two years but little evidence is available for children under two. There was a marked difference between vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. That no safety comparisons could be carried out emphasizes the need for standardisation of methods and presentation of vaccine safety data in future studies. It was surprising to find only one study of inactivated vaccine in children under two years, given recent recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months old in the USA and Canada. If immunisation in children is to be recommended as public-health policy, large-scale studies assessing important outcomes and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently required.

Linky
 
Are flu shots just another money making gimmick?

Nope. Many people here can get them for free.

Do they protect only against previous years strains and are not effective against yet unknown strains?

They are developed based on previous strains, yes. Whether they are effective against current years really depends on how much the virus has changed. Viruses, especially Infuenza Viruses, mutate and evolve very quickly. However, that being said, mutations do not always impact immune factors. 'Flu' mutants which have different surface proteins will be less effectively (or not at all, depending on the change) targetted by any vaccination.

Is real influenza pretty rare and when most people say the got the flu the didn't have it and it was not something that would have been stopped by the shot.

Oh god yes. It's a peeve of mine, actually.

As Katana has pointed, it is not the most supported vaccination out there. However, that being said, for the you, elderly and especially the immunocompromised, it's not entirely silly to have them. Especially since they are free/cheap (at least here, dunno about elsewhere), don't harm, and could actually work (obviously depending on the strain). One major problem is you're not particularly likely to know if it has 'worked', since you wouldn't get sick!

(Yes, gross oversimplification I know.)
 
Basicly, if you haven't had that particular strain before, yes it's worth it. Otherwise you've probably immunized yourself already if you've already had it. It just mutates to damn fast. Damn you evolution!
 
Influenza reassorts AND mutates AND recombines.

If you want to follow the progress of actual flu infections, the CDC has a good website. You can follow the wave across the country. Last year it started on the left coast and headed east. The posted CDC data tends to be a week or so behind.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/fluactivity.htm
 
I was given the flu shot every year for 20 years in the Navy. When I retired, I didn't go out and get the flu shot. That December, I got the flu. And I was a piece of raw meat to that bug. It was so bad, I ended up in the hospital. The admitting nurse in the ER said, "A lot of people come in here thinking they have the flu, but they don't have the flu. You have the flu. :)

Was not pleasant.

One shot I do believe in. The flu shot. I also believe in the pneumonia shot, probably more than the flu shot. I didn't even know there was such a thing until I got out of the Navy. Every year, I would get a cold and it would spread to my lungs and I would be hacking for weeks. Bent over double hacking. And on one occasion, coughing up blood.

I went to the Navy doc and he said I have asthma. He gives me an inhaler. As if every doctor in my life before then somewho missed that I had asthma. But hey, he's a doc, do what he says. So I use the inhaler and coughed like I have never coughed in my life. Then I noticed a whole bunch of my shipmates were carrying inhalers.

Freaking quack!

A corpsman who was on the ball got me some antibiotics and that was that.

Once I retired, I got this pneumonia shot my wife told me about, and its been six years since I have had that hacking.
 
I've never had a "flu-shot"; I lived in a tiny, geographically isolated area. I worked in a convenience store, and still never got sick. I wasn't exposed to a large number of the (U.S.) population, but, from over a cross-section of the entire state of Wisconsin; and, still, I never got sick.
But my friend Donna (who'd had a liver-transplant) always insisted that I should still get a "flu-shot" .
I'd known other folks who had gotten their flu-shots and, yet, still managed to get sick.
I deemed them all "weak-willed losers".
I continued to drink heavilly, and began instead, to chart my BM's.
 
I was given the flu shot every year for 20 years in the Navy. When I retired, I didn't go out and get the flu shot. That December, I got the flu. [SNIP]

Nice to see there are other swabbies on here ;)

I got off active duty from the Navy in 1986, after about 12 years. Might have had a flu shot the first few years out, because I was working at a medical facility (honestly don't remember getting the shot, but it's likely they offered them free to us). But haven't had one for over 10 years now, and unless it passed unnoticed, I haven't had the flu once.

I used to hate getting the shot. It always wasted me. I'd have to go back home, and just crash for the rest of the day. By the next morning I'd be ok, but that night after the shot I was useless.

I keep thinking that as I get older, I should start taking them again. But figure I'll wait till I get a good case of the flu before I do.
 
Do they work - Evidence points that way.
Would I have it if offered - damn right.

I never had Flu until 2000\2001. New Years Eve so I was imbibing freely after I'd finished work and got light headed quicker than I would have expected. About 9PM I started to get a scratchy throat, I thoughtobviously that I was just getting a little dehydrated so alternated beers with juice for the rest of the night.

Next morning I surfaced into conciousness with the worst sore throat I'd ever had, muscle pains that felt like I'd been the victim of a brutal mugging, a feeling that my skin had been lightly sandpapered all over, a wracking cough and a fever high enough that my Pharmacist girlfriend was going to carry me to A&E.

Those symptoms lasted for about 5 days (the fever went down quickly with NSAIDs) and after that I was as weak as a kitten for another 6 or 7. I learnt two things from this;
Being off work for a couple of days means you haven't had Flu, it's just a cold.
If you're ever offered a Flu shot - take it
 
This evening during her violin lesson my daughter started to feel very tired and cruddy. Her eyes would start tearing for no apparent reason. In the car she insisted on having the heat on full blast.

When we got home she asked for more blankets because she could not get warm. I took her temperature and it was over 100 degrees F. And now her muscles hurt, lots.

So she now has the flu.

A couple of weeks ago she got her Tdap vaccine. I explained to her that this was new because pertussis was coming back, and it was very very bad and can cause death in very young children. I did tend to rant about my opinion on anti-vaxers.

Then later in the week her oldest brother got the influenza vaccine because he has a very severe heart disorder. The doctor even told me he worries more about the flu than pertussis with him (my oldest could not get the Tdap because he is 18 years old).

So now my daughter asked me twice this evening if she has the flu her brother was vaccinated for... and is it the one that causes death.

Oh, crud... I feel like a bad scaremongering parent right now.

I did tell her that the deaths are with older people and those with health problems (like her brother), not young healthy kids like herself.

I hope I'm right.... and I hope I don't get what she has.
 
At my age of 54 it matters not whether 'tis woo woo or not. (Anecdote follows)

Prior to getting flu shots I was in bed for around a week a year...what the bug was I have no way of knowing... (it ain't like the guys in the navy uniforms from the CDC come knocking on the door)

I haven't had that since. Therefore as I am too old to spend a week with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, I choose the shots.
[/anecdote]
 
I used to be sick for a couple of weeks every winter with the flu. Now work offers it to us for free. I take it and not been sick since. With one exception. I had not taken the flu shot that year.
 
Influenza is not rare. CDC current flu activity as well as activity the past few years. The WHO, Europe, and a few other countries have similar report web sites.

The flu is a serious respiratory infection not a stomach infection as many believe. There are ~200 known respiratory pathogens and the flu represents only a small percentage. But it kills many more people than most the others. If you have a sudden onset of a high fever, headache, muscle aches, and by the next day have a sore throat and cough during flu outbreaks it is more likely the flu than not. If you have a scratchy throat and runny nose that turns into a cough and has a mild fever it is unlikely to be the flu.

A considerably large portion of public health money is spent by all modern countries monitoring and evaluating flu risk annually. This includes monitoring human and animal influenza disease. The virus' genetic drift (and shift when recombinant strains emerge) is continually determined by sampling the virus from animals and humans as outbreaks circle the globe following the endless winter.

Vaccine composition is determined by the WHO twice a year based on what is actually circulating. Vaccine strain viral cultures maintained by the WHO are then distributed to vaccine manufacturers from which they produce vaccine. There is a southern hemisphere and a northern hemisphere version with production set for the fall in each hemisphere. It contains 3 strains because adding more gets you the law of diminishing return. You get very little additional coverage for circulating strains by adding more than 3. The vaccine will change 1,2 or 3 of the strains it contains from year to year.

The virus' lethality and complication rate are seriously underestimated by most people.

The vaccine is very safe compared to the risk from the disease.

It doesn't make you ill as many believe. There are placebo controlled studies showing that.

The vaccine is not the biggest money maker for drug companies which is one reason not enough is produced every year.

The current HPAI-H5N1 (bird flu) reminder that a deadly pandemic of influenza is cyclic and we have no means yet to stop it when it happens has renewed interest in potential profit therefore research has resumed in earnest among a few vaccine manufacturers.

A recent study published which analyzed the viral changes of regular flu over a few years indicated it remains the same as far as your immune system recognizing it for long stretches then a new version will emerge and rapidly become the dominant strain. This happened recently with H5N1 as well though the new version remains deadly and is not spreading among humans very efficiently just like the first version. Original article (BTW, there are several H5N1 strains that are not very dangerous and are worldwide. The deadly version emerged from the mild strains in 1997.)

Your vaccine will last anywhere from several months to a few years depending on your immune system but since you don't get a 'series' it doesn't last as long as say a tetanus vaccine. However it's a moot point since the virus will drift enough to appear as a new organism to your immune system every year or two anyway.

Oh, BTW, as an infectious disease practitioner, I get a flu shot and give one to my son every year.
 
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Once I retired, I got this pneumonia shot my wife told me about, and its been six years since I have had that hacking.
If you were under 65 when you got the first pneumovax, you should get a booster after five years.
 

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