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Flu Shots

Interesting, something saying the same thing was on Yahoo news a few months back. I'll try to find the specifics from that news report.

Reuters Nov 16, 2006
The study, which was conducted in Poland and presented at the American Heart Association meeting in Chicago, involved 658 patients with coronary artery disease. Of those, 325 received an active flu vaccine and 333 received a placebo.

After 296 days, patients who did not receive the vaccine were nearly twice as likely to have a heart attack, undergo an unplanned angioplasty to open blocked arteries or die from heart-related causes.
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How could the flu vaccine prevent heart attacks?
For years, studies have drawn a link between influenza and heart disease. As early as 2003, a study published in the "New England Journal of Medicine" involving people with heart problems -- either prior heart attacks, angioplasty or stent placement (to open arteries) -- found that those who got the flu shot were 20 percent less likely to end up in the hospital with a heart-related problem and 50 percent less likely to die in the year following vaccination... at least four studies since 2003, the most recent one conducted in Poland in 2006, show that heart patients who receive the flu vaccine are hospitalized less and have lower fatality rates in the year following vaccination than heart patients who do not receive the vaccine. The data shows anywhere from a 25 to 50 percent decrease in mortality and hospitalization rates from heart-related events for vaccinated patients. One study found that heart-attack deaths rise in flu season and fall in the off-season like clockwork.
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Maybe those reports of increased deaths around the Xmas holidays are not from stress. It's be interesting to compare December death stats from the north and south hemispheres.

I thought my news clipping was from this year but it could have been last year. I'll find the file note I have and see.
 
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Before you all get excited about the flu vaccine's amazing ability to prevent heart attacks, let's have a look at that study done in Poland:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/114/18_MeetingAbstracts/II_906-c

Influenza Vaccination in Prevention from Coronary Events in Coronary Artery Disease. FLUCAD Study.

Background: Influenza vaccination is recommended in patients (p) with cardiovascular disease, however there is few data proving its protective effect on clinical course of coronary artery disease (CAD). We present, to the best of our knowledge, first, randomized, double blind, placebo controlled study in this field. The aim of the study was to evaluate the effect of influenza vaccination on the incidence of coronary events in p with CAD confirmed by coronarography.

Methods: Single center, randomized, prospective, double blind, placebo controlled study. The randomization was 1:1 (placebo : active vaccine). Cox proportional hazards model analysis was performed. Study group: Between October 2004 and February 2005, we included and vaccinated 658 CAD p; 477 men, mean age 59.9+/–10.3 years. There were 287 p enrolled before discharge from the hospital after percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI), and 371 p without recent PCI.

Results: 325 p received the active vaccine, and 333 p received placebo. There were no significant differences between the study groups. No patient was lost to follow-up. Mean follow-up was 296.8+/–35.7 days. Primary end-point: cardiovascular death occurred in 2 p (0.61%) in the vaccine vs in 2 p (0.60%) in the placebo group (NS). First composite end-point: cardiovascular death, or myocardial infarction, or non-planned coronary revascularization (PCI or coronary bypass surgery) tended to occur less frequently in the vaccine group in comparison to the placebo group: 9 p (2.8%) vs 17 p (5.1%), respectively, (HR 0.54; 95% CI, 0.24 to 1.21; p= 0.13). Second composite end-point: cardiovascular death, or myocardial infarction, or non-planned revascularization or hospitalization for ischemia occurred significantly less frequently in the vaccine group: 16 p (4.9%) vs 30 p (9.0%) in the placebo group, (HR 0.54; 95% CI, 0.29 to 0.991; p=0.047). On multivariate analysis : primary PCI (HR 2.93; 95% CI 1.51 – 5.65, p=0.0014), influenza vaccination (HR 0.38; 95% CI 0.19 – 0.78, p=0.009), and female sex (HR 2.15; 95% CI 1.11 – 4.15, p=0.023), emerged as independent predictors of the occurrence of composite point 2.

Conclusion: Influenza vaccination may reduce frequency of coronary events in patients with coronary artery disease.
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The difference between the two groups was barely significant at the 5% level (0.047) for the second end-point. Just as many people died in both groups.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The difference between the two groups was barely significant at the 5% level (0.047) for the second end-point. Just as many people died in both groups.
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This may just be barely significant because the study groups are very small for a study looking at cardiovascular outcomes, which in themselves are infrequent events. (For example, it took over 8000 patients to demonstrate the risk from Vioxx). Multivariate analysis showed flu vaccination was an independent predictor (p=0.009).

So however you look at it, there is a difference in cardiovascular events. Taken in conjunction with the underlying pathogenesis mechanism, which is both plausible and real, I think we can conclude that vaccination is likely to have a protective benefit.

Or, to put it another way, using your Polish data, you need to vaccinate only 23 patients to prevent one cardiovascular event (death, myocardial infarction, operative intervention (angioplasty or coronary bypass surgery) or hospitalisation).
Care to calculate the cost/benefit ratio for those, or work out the QALYs?
 
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Oh pish, it has saved only approximately 300 kids from the illness so far, that's nothing *rolls eyes*/sarcasm.
 
Yup - a mere trifle.....
(a drop in the ocean compared to the tens of thousands of kids being killed or worse from the vaccine's toxic mercury, aluminium and other heavy metal content!)
;)
 
jimtron said:
I've never had a flu shot that I recall, but in Chicago there have been quite a few cases, so I'm thinking about getting one. Anyone have opinions about getting the shot at Walgreens? http://www.walgreens.com/topic/health-shops/flu-shots.jsp
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First: IANAD

Methinks that any influenza vaccine you get in the U.S., whether at Walgreens or Walter Reed, will be of similar quality, one of a few variations from some very few sources and handled with adequate care.

I got mine at Kroger this year, Walgreens last year, and the office cafeteria the year before.

By "any influenza vaccine" I mean "the flu shot" that millions of ordinary folks get. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn of some more specialized vaccine preparations more specifically targeted or reserved to folks with some special conditions. If you think you might be one of those folk (or if you want an opinion more likely to matter), ask a doctor.
 
DavidS said:
First: IANAD

Methinks that any influenza vaccine you get in the U.S., whether at Walgreens or Walter Reed, will be of similar quality, one of a few variations from some very few sources and handled with adequate care.

I got mine at Kroger this year, Walgreens last year, and the office cafeteria the year before.

By "any influenza vaccine" I mean "the flu shot" that millions of ordinary folks get. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn of some more specialized vaccine preparations more specifically targeted or reserved to folks with some special conditions. If you think you might be one of those folk (or if you want an opinion more likely to matter), ask a doctor.
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Thanks for the response. Just found this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._states_should_let_drugstores_give_shots.html
 
I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn of some more specialized vaccine preparations more specifically targeted or reserved to folks with some special conditions.
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The flu vaccines available differ in their formulations; some are whole inactivated virus, some subunit proteins, some live attenuated virus. But they are all designed to induce an antibody response to the HA (haemagglutinin) protein which is associated with protection. They aren't targeted to specialised groups but maybe administered differently. For immunocompromised individuals the vaccine may be given as two half dose shots separated by ~1 month.
 
Dabljuh said:
Congratulations: You convinced me. This is actually pretty interesting to me. It seems like these toxins are actually tested and all (on actual guinea pigs, not just the figure of speech) by injecting the immunized guinea pigs with the toxin, and they do become immune.

This means you have here at least one vaccination that works. Hence, I no longer believe that all vaccinations are BS. I'll have to learn to differentiate between vaccinations that are BS and those that aren't.
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Would you like to know which vaccinations worked for me?
 
Capsid said:
The flu vaccines available differ in their formulations; some are whole inactivated virus, some subunit proteins, some live attenuated virus. But they are all designed to induce an antibody response to the HA (haemagglutinin) protein which is associated with protection. They aren't targeted to specialised groups but maybe administered differently. For immunocompromised individuals the vaccine may be given as two half dose shots separated by ~1 month.
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I've not see whole cell flu vaccine in a couple decades in the US. Do they still use it elsewhere?

I'm also unsure of your other recommendations here, they don't make sense.

For people over 65 there is now a high dose vaccine, not a split low dose. If a person is immunocompromised they need more, not less. And you'd never give an immunocompromised person the live vaccine as long as the killed vaccine is available.
 
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