Flight 93

[Jonnyclueless]

I think that 5% landed somewhere in the land of reason.

 

[Clippy]

What do think could have hit the plane and created the scene as witnessed?

You are basically saying you have no worldy explanation for why you think it was shot down? If you made a few guesses I may be able to help you. I worked on military aircraft and know about missiles and weapons systems.

You missed the FDR data contradicting the shootdown theory also?

EMP? Missile? Not really sure, don't know much about weapons systems and such. It seems to me though that you could not say with certainty that if it was, for example, hit by a missile, that the debris field would necessarily look at certain way afterwards. Could be wrong though, I'm no expert.

Not too sure what to make of the FDR. By some accounts, the CVR cuts out 3 minutes too early. It's that sort of thing that makes me suspicious that the whole story is not being told here. Contradictory accounts of when the shootdown authorization was issued and when the military was first alerted to flight 93 make me think that a shootdown was well within the realm of possibility. I would like to see more informed discussion about the physical evidence, hence my question as to whether you knew of the diagram.

 

[RedIbis]

RedIbis - I'm not one for getting involved in 9/11 CT issues, partially because I'm a little late to the party, so to speak, and it would take me an enormous amount of research to get up to speed, which I don't really consider a good use of my time. But I have to admit that I have somewhat of a fascination in reading the ongoing 9/11 CT arguments, to see how convincing they seem, even if only on face value, and how well, or poorly, they're presented.

I like to think I can be, and am, objective when presented with arguments. The problem with your postings here, though (and I haven't read any other 9/11 CT threads to which you might have contributed, so I can't know whether this is typical), is that you haven't presented any real argument, certainly not well-supported arguments. All you've really done is pose questions, most if which you could, I suspect, and therefore should, if you're motivation is genuine, obtain answers to through sensible, proper enquiry. The remaining questions, as others have pointed out, are invalid, in the sense that you shouldn't, as a member of the general public, realistically expect readily available answers to them.

You seem to expect that the respective Authorities are under some sort of obligation to investigate Flight 93 to the nth degree, and make all of its findings publicly available, simply to pre-empt any and every possible question that could conceivably be asked, regardless of source or motive. The World doesn't work like that. It would be great if it did, but then you'd need to find a new hobby, which might not be a bad thing, for all concerned.

RedIbis, please don't take offence, but you really should, as should others like you, take a step back, a deep breath and then a serious reality check on life generally, and your motivations in particular. I remember the first time I became involved in geocaching (I trust you know what that is) as a 40-year-old adult(!). It was good fun, derived a great sense of excitement and satisfaction, and made me feel like part of a special community that has found its purpose in life. Then the novelty wore off and I reverted to more grown-up pursuits. I kinda look back sometimes and wonder what it was that I found so appealing. I suppose it was the sense of adventure - rising to the challenge and trying to find the answer to the puzzle, or better still, being crowned the "first to find"!.

I can't help feeling that your motivations, and those of similar ilk, are not disimilar, the only difference being that you don't really want to find the cache, because that then signals the end of the search, and it's the search that appeals to you, not the truth. It's like the bitter-sweet feeling of completing a jigsaw that you've been painstakingly working on for weeks, feverishly slotting the last few pieces into place because the end is in sight, but then pausing with the final piece poised, not really wanting to place it into position because of the sudden realization that the "challenge" will then evaporate instantaneously, never to present itself again.

So, how do you manage your motivations and expectations? Simple, you mentally dispose of some pieces of the "jigsaw". That way you can ostensibly attempt to complete the picture, but you know it'll never happen. Whatever you do, no matter how hard you try, or whatever help is offered by others, the puzzle will never be properly solved. Trouble is, if you're honest with yourself, you know exactly what the picture is from the start. You don't need to complete the jigsaw to know. It's on the box for all to see.

I try to answer posts which are addressed directly to me, but I have to avoid the ones that are longwinded and the only questions are hypothetical.

Care to address any of the specific questions I posed about the physical evidence?

 

[funk de fino]

EMP? Missile? Not really sure, don't know much about weapons systems and such. It seems to me though that you could not say with certainty that if it was, for example, hit by a missile, that the debris field would necessarily look at certain way afterwards. Could be wrong though, I'm no expert.

Air to Air missile from miltary aircraft do not vapourise aircraft (especially that large) and passengers. They damage them so they crash. Most of the time breaking up as they go.

EMP? Laughable, if you have to resort to that specualtion you should think about your bias

Not too sure what to make of the FDR. By some accounts, the CVR cuts out 3 minutes too early. It's that sort of thing that makes me suspicious that the whole story is not being told here. Contradictory accounts of when the shootdown authorization was issued and when the military was first alerted to flight 93 make me think that a shootdown was well within the realm of possibility. I would like to see more informed discussion about the physical evidence, hence my question as to whether you knew of the diagram.

FDR is a killer to the shootdown theory. With its info the shootdown theory is bunk.

When do you think a shootdown was given?

I would like to see the reference that the CVR stops 3 mins from the end though.

 

[lapman]

That's not what that link says. The actual quote is,

At a news conference, FBI agent Bill Crowley said that the field near Shanksville, Somerset County, has been turned over to the county coroner and that 95 percent of the plane found at the site has been turned over to United Airlines.

Lynn Truss would have a field day here over the question of whether a comma has been omitted after the word "plane", but I would interpret it as saying that 95% of the plane was found at the site and that this 95% has now been turned over to UA.

Dave

I think that we are reading this wrong. It looks like 95% of what was found of the plane was turned over to UA, not 95% of the plane was found and was turned over to UA.

 

[Reheat]

For all they knew the remaining 5% could have had human remains on it. Why would they stop looking with 5 tons of debris still left to find?

Why don't you grab a shovel and go looking for the remaining % 5. If it has human remains in it will you be delighted and will it solve you JAQing?

This is a rhetorical question that needs no answer because I already know it. Have you ever searched for human remains or even aircraft parts after a high speed aircraft crash? I know you haven't or you wouldn't be asking such stupid questions. Yes, your question is stupid, pure and simple stoooopid.

When an aircraft is involved with a high speed collision with mother earth the aircraft remains are mostly little bitty pieces of scrap aluminum and other material much of which can not be identified. In many cases, a piece of the aircraft can not be distinguished from a rock or lumpy clay.

Human remains, well..... They are in little bitty pieces too some too small to identify as human parts, particularly if they are burned.

Having been in aviation for the greater part of my life, I have walked around aircraft wreckages. I've even searched for the body parts of friends. In one particular instances only a certain percentage of of the body weight of two aircrew has been recovered from a high speed crash site. The families requested that a search continue for a greater percentage of the body weight. In the total search, the largest piece of human parts found was a piece of jawbone.

Your suggestion that someone search for % 5 of a high speed crash debris is audacious at best, at worst it is disgusting.

 

[funk de fino]

I try to answer posts which are addressed directly to me, but I have to avoid the ones that are longwinded and the only questions are hypothetical.

Till you get backed in a corner then you run away

Care to address any of the specific questions I posed about the physical evidence?

care to provide any for a shootdown?

 

[Southwind17]

I try to answer posts which are addressed directly to me, but I have to avoid the ones that are longwinded and the only questions are hypothetical.

How convenient!

Care to address any of the specific questions I posed about the physical evidence?

Er ... I thought that's what my post did, albeit collectively! As I wrote, you're asking the "wrong" questions, and of the wrong people. But hey, keep plodding on with your impossible jigsaw puzzle if you're not interested in taking that reality check on life that I suggested. You can lead a horse to water ...

 

[Clippy]

Air to Air missile from miltary aircraft do not vapourise aircraft (especially that large) and passengers. They damage them so they crash. Most of the time breaking up as they go.

EMP? Laughable, if you have to resort to that specualtion you should think about your bias



FDR is a killer to the shootdown theory. With its info the shootdown theory is bunk.

When do you think a shootdown was given?

I would like to see the reference that the CVR stops 3 mins from the end though.

Where did I say that the plane was vaporized?

I don't know when it was given, but I think it is earlier than what was stated in the Zelikow report.

The CVR stops at 10:03 but seismic data suggests the plane hit the ground at 10:06 (which was also the time being given in news reports). But I see there is a page about this at 911myths, so you will perhaps consider this to be completely debunked.

But I don't know so much about the details for flight 93. I was only interested to know what the best information is for the debris field.

 

[Dog Town]

I think that we are reading this wrong. It looks like 95% of what was found of the plane was turned over to UA, not 95% of the plane was found and was turned over to UA.

Agreed. This should get theauthors' top spinning!

 

[funk de fino]

Where did I say that the plane was vaporized?

Where are all the large parts strewn everywhere in the photos and videos that would be there on a shootdown?

I don't know when it was given, but I think it is earlier than what was stated in the Zelikow report.

Belief? How about some proof? Standown and shootdowns are so last year

The CVR stops at 10:03 but seismic data suggests the plane hit the ground at 10:06 (which was also the time being given in news reports). But I see there is a page about this at 911myths, so you will perhaps consider this to be completely debunked.

The CVR stops when the plane crashes. The seismic means nothing. Not all clocks are synchronised. Where can you hear explosions from missiles in the CVR? When do the terrorists mention being hit or shot? Read what they say.

But I don't know so much about the details for flight 93. I was only interested to know what the best information is for the debris field.

So basically you have nothing but beliefs?

I thought that is all the debunkers were supposed to have?

 

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

these idiots are ignored.
I can't stand it when they claimed flight 93 was an inside job while they desecrate the human lives that we lost that day.
And, I am not getting any more warnings from chill.
Hey chill, care to switch to that avatar of yours with your nice smile? somehow it portrays your authority and I like it better.

 

[Clippy]

Belief? How about some proof? Standown and shootdowns are so last year

The CVR stops when the plane crashes. The seismic means nothing. Not all clocks are synchronised. Where can you hear explosions from missiles in the CVR? When do the terrorists mention being hit or shot? Read what they say.

So basically you have nothing but beliefs?

I thought that is all the debunkers were supposed to have?

Sorry, no proof. Just contradictory statements that lead me to believe something was covered up.

Any proof the clock for the seismic data was off? Or is that just a belief of yours?

You understand my point, although you don't seem to realize it. If the last 3 minutes are missing, you will not hear a missile hitting.

 

[Clippy]

Had a fighter pilot shot down a hijacked jet that day he'd have been a hero, as he'd have prevented a greater loss of life by protecting the target of the hijacked airliner.

Don't think so. This is a major taboo. Has the military ever admitted to intentionally killing US citizens?

 

[Reheat]

Don't think so. This is a major taboo. Has the military ever admitted to intentionally killing US citizens?

Well, you tell us when the US Military has ever had a reason to kill US Citizens. I think a few former military were killed in the riots following WWI. Can you name any others which have even occurred, let alone covered up?

 

[theauthor]

So the claim now is that perhaps 100% of the plane was found. Where is it? Where is this 100 tons of material? How much is in Iron Mountain?

 

[theauthor]

Well, you tell us when the US Military has ever had a reason to kill US Citizens. I think a few former military were killed in the riots following WWI. Can you name any others which have even occurred, let alone covered up?

Yes, the radiation tests that were carried out in the 1940s, where unsuspecting people were injected with radiation and died.

 

[Clippy]

Well, you tell us when the US Military has ever had a reason to kill US Citizens. I think a few former military were killed in the riots following WWI. Can you name any others which have even occurred, let alone covered up?

Can't think of any. And if they did, I wouldn't expect them to announce it, let alone be lauded as heros for it, as the OP stated. Do you think someone who had shot down flight 93 would be seen as a hero?

 

[beachnut]

Don't think so. This is a major taboo. Has the military ever admitted to intentionally killing US citizens?

Which part do you have a problem with?

The passengers on 93 took down the plane by scaring the dolt terrorist into panic! Just like the terrorist 9/11, truth has no idea what is going on! The passengers on 93 were heroes, they figured out 9/11 in minutes, and the goats are 9/11 truth, 6 years and zero, zip, no clue.

The military pilot would first intercept the plane, then get it to follow. If that fails there are a few tricks to make the plane land in a 3 degree to 4 degree glide.

 

[332nd]

Can't think of any. And if they did, I wouldn't expect them to announce it, let alone be lauded as heros for it, as the OP stated. Do you think someone who had shot down flight 93 would be seen as a hero?

To make sure 93 didn't crash into a building in which there were likely to be many more people? Yep.