First Amendment Goes too Far...

[headscratcher4]

at least according to a growing number of students:

This from an AP report today (from Salon, registratin needed):

Jan. 31, 2005 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released Monday.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press and assembly.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

Well, fortunately, we've Fox to give government approved information....

 

[American]

They have no right to think that the media should have to follow the same laws as everybody else. How will we ever know the truth without Dan Rather breaking federal election laws with fake documents?

 

[Just thinking]

Well, fortunately, we've Fox to give government approved information....

Yeah, like when they stick it to Bush and his administration for his immigration policies.

 

[Ladewig]

Another link to the storyhere. I chose to post this link because I like the headline:

Freedom of what? First Amendment no big deal, students say.

WASHINGTON — The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag-burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released today.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly and petition.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes "too far" in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

"These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous," said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. "Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation's future."

 

[hgc]

Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

Only a hairsbreadth from tyranny. People tend to have an unhealthy respect for authority. Where are the real libertarians when you need them?

 

[Grammatron]

I wonder how they asked the questions and what the questions were?

I don't think high school students are a good indicator of anything as our education system doesn't really kick in until college level.

 

[BPSCG]

I wonder how they asked the questions and what the questions were?

I don't think high school students are a good indicator of anything as our education system doesn't really kick in until college level.

Don't bet on it.

Some years ago, the "Weekend Update" segment of Saturday Night Live featured a "story" about a supposed free-speech case; the defendant had supposedly written something critical of the government and was being sued or something. The newscaster reported, "Chief Justice William Rhenquist stated, 'I don't know where people get the idea they can write stuff like that.'"

There was dead silence. Nobody in the audience had gotten the joke.

Depressing.

 

[headscratcher4]

They get the idea from people like Ari Fliescher...remember back after 9/11 when he warned Americans about watching what they say ...or maybe from George Bush who, at a press conference, chidded Senators and critics of his Iraq polciy for giving comfort to the enemy...

 

[rikzilla]

I wonder how they asked the questions and what the questions were?

I don't think high school students are a good indicator of anything as our education system doesn't really kick in until college level.

I've also heard the young people are becoming more and more conservative. My own daughter is 18 and she is to the right of me! Hey, don't blame me. I believe in letting my children form their own opinions...and only then debating them on the merits of it. Besides, what kid wants to have the political opinions of their Dad?

To me the idea that the next generation is more conservative is not troubling. I think it's just the natural pendulum swing of society. Their kids will likely be more liberal than Ted Kennedy, I just hope the world is far less dangerous by then.

-z

 

[hgc]

I've also heard the young people are becoming more and more conservative. My own daughter is 18 and she is to the right of me! Hey, don't blame me. I believe in letting my children form their own opinions...and only then debating them on the merits of it. Besides, what kid wants to have the political opinions of their Dad?

To me the idea that the next generation is more conservative is not troubling. I think it's just the natural pendulum swing of society. Their kids will likely be more liberal than Ted Kennedy, I just hope the world is far less dangerous by then.

-z

Are the opinion that the 1st amendment goes to far a "conservative" value?

 

[headscratcher4]

I've also heard the young people are becoming more and more conservative. My own daughter is 18 and she is to the right of me! Hey, don't blame me. I believe in letting my children form their own opinions...and only then debating them on the merits of it. Besides, what kid wants to have the political opinions of their Dad?

To me the idea that the next generation is more conservative is not troubling. I think it's just the natural pendulum swing of society. Their kids will likely be more liberal than Ted Kennedy, I just hope the world is far less dangerous by then.

-z

AH, but Z, you can be a conservative and a champion of freedom of speech...what is particularly troubling here is that the poll seems to indicate lessening tolerance for freedom of speech. A true conservative -- like yourself -- battles foes with the power of ideas and knows that the logic, reason, expression will win the day. These kids are not exhibting a "conservative" ideology so much as a toleration for authoritarian/totalitarian rationales for the suppression of ideas.

I find it ironic for the US to be promoting democracy in the Middle east while attitudes at home are becomming more suppression tolerant -- Iranian youth yearn for greater outlets of expression while a growing number of kids in this country think that the government should edit newspapers...that's not liberal or conservative...it is proto-facist.

 

[pgwenthold]

Don't bet on it.

Some years ago, the "Weekend Update" segment of Saturday Night Live featured a "story" about a supposed free-speech case; the defendant had supposedly written something critical of the government and was being sued or something. The newscaster reported, "Chief Justice William Rhenquist stated, 'I don't know where people get the idea they can write stuff like that.'"

There was dead silence. Nobody in the audience had gotten the joke.

Depressing.

Bah. Our founding fathers would never have put up with any criticism of the government.





[/sarcasm]

 

[BPSCG]

They get the idea from people like Ari Fliescher...remember back after 9/11 when he warned Americans about watching what they say ...or maybe from George Bush who, at a press conference, chidded Senators and critics of his Iraq polciy for giving comfort to the enemy...

Nonsense. I've been seeing polls for years and years that show that the majority - or at least large minorities - of Americans disapprove of the Bill of Rights. You can no more place the blame on Fleisher or Bush any more than you could place it on Hillary Clinton when she said that when Bill's impeachment hearings were over, a lot of people were going to have to have a lot to answer for.

People are just goddam ignoramuses.

 

[headscratcher4]

Nonsense. I've been seeing polls for years and years that show that the majority - or at least large minorities - of Americans disapprove of the Bill of Rights. You can no more place the blame on Fleisher or Bush any more than you could place it on Hillary Clinton when she said that when Bill's impeachment hearings were over, a lot of people were going to have to have a lot to answer for.

People are just goddam ignoramuses.

Sorry, over-stated a bit... ... my point, inarticulately made, was not to blame Bush et.a. (though I generally do blame Bush et.al. for everything wrong in the world ) but rather to suggest that these attitudes are purvasive in our society...starting at the top. I think that all people in power believe that freedom should be better "controlled"...I recall that Lincoln suspended Habius Corpus and Rosevelt allowed internment camps. All I ment to suggest is that these kinds of statements (regardless of who makes them) when delivered from postions of power are influencial....

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Bah. Our founding fathers would never have put up with any criticism of the government.

[/sarcasm] [/QUOTte]
No not sarcasim, If Adams and his like minded contemporaries had their way , the alien and seditions act would still be law.

As far as the younger generation of "Conservatives" coming into their own. They like many so called "Conservatives" aren't really, their Neo-Cons. They give lip service to the core values of Least Government, less regulation, freedom of speech and other stances definitive of real Conservatism.

The message of Conservatives AND Liberals has been co-opted and corrupted to remove almost any resemblance to their true meaning. I think Bush is an idiot, as almost 1/2 of Americans and most of and the world agree but, he like we all are a product of our times.
Bush to conservatism to me is like Al Sharpton to Liberalism governance to excess and that is dangerous. Thank God that the “Founders” had the presents of mind to provide against “The Tyranny of the Majority”. Sometimes I think they were more brilliant then I give them credit for.

 

[Tony]

These kids are not exhibting a "conservative" ideology so much as a toleration for authoritarian/totalitarian rationales for the suppression of ideas.

Well, I'd say that is, by definition, conservative.

 

[hammegk]

And I'd say that's just standard pc'lib ideals.

 

[Silicon]

I call bullcrap on this one.

Not that I say the study isn't real.

It's that its conclusions are extreme.

Yeah, the average high-school kid doesn't have an intellectual understanding of the first Amendment protections. But they DO understand it when framed to them. The question shouldn't be "Should flags be burned"? The question should be "Should Howard Stern be censored?" Or South Park? Or YOU?

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.

HELLO!!!??!

That's HIGH SCHOOL for you. Anyone here ever attend High School?

I was a person with unpopular views in High School. High School is about surrendering your differences and not speaking up. CONFORMITY.



Knight Foundation paid a million dollars to get the answer to this question?


What's next, asking people who are members of a Country Club if the rich should be taxed more?

 

[Luke T.]

The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing...

How many high school students have even read a newspaper?

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment...

How many high school students can read?

 

[CapelDodger]

I don't think high school students are a good indicator of anything as our education system doesn't really kick in until college level.

'Give us a child until the age of seven and we will give you the man'. If you don't "get it" in high school, you're unlikely to get it in college. Not unless somebody tries to teach it to you. How much of that goes on in college these days? It's a hostile, competitive world out there - and in there, in this post-tenure age - and non-specific non-earning-power-related philosophical issues are the pursuit of a loser.

And minorities that have fallen for a bait-and-switch, of course.