Fibromyalgia- Lab test! and a Vaccine!

[casebro]

Fibromyalgia- Lab test! and a Vaccine!

https://www.clinicalleader.com/doc/...aradigm-it-s-not-just-for-cancer-anymore-0001

Seems it's an immune disorder. But from LOW immune response by peripheral mono-nuculars. The test finds low numbers for the markers. The vaccine? An attenuated live TB vax, Bgc-Tokyo.

Looks like the disease is caused by NOT getting an infection. How do you like them apples- preferably wind falls w/ cow manure on them?

And also, they are using the same vax for bladder cancer, infused via catheter.

Hygiene theory any one?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It's BCG, not Bgc.

This right here is crap:

“They believe it only happens in women and that patients must develop the illness because they have some deep-seated psychological disturbance or inferiority complex.

I don't know any doctors who think like that anymore about any psych disorders. Maybe in the UK? I hear they still think Freud had an evidence based practice.

No physical findings and an improvement when anti-depressants have been used is where fibromyalgia treatment was last time I looked.

It's true there are numerous auto-antibodies there are no tests for. I have one of those syndromes. But there are clear physical findings in my case, no mystery there, just a mystery as to the cause.

The article is from 2018. I'll see if I can find anything more recent.

 

[zooterkin]

I've seen suggestions that the FM symptoms are very similar to long Covid, which is also related to immune response, and research on one might help with the other. Some suggestions that mitochondria might be damaged by the virus.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've seen suggestions that the FM symptoms are very similar to long Covid, which is also related to immune response, and research on one might help with the other. Some suggestions that mitochondria might be damaged by the virus.

Not to be too cynical here (I've yet to start looking for updates) but this crap is akin to the Discovery Institute claiming maybe they will find the illusive genetic evidence for Intelligent Design in mitochondria. Or to put it in physics terminology, maybe quantum mechanics is where we'll find evidence of ESP.


If the source of fibromyalgia is in mitochondria, there would still need to be evidence of the result of the mitochondria causing pain. IOW you would still expect to find abnormalities in the tissues that are painful or at least in the nerves somewhere.

Now if long-COVID symptoms are the result of mitochondrial damage, that may indeed be a finding not yet totally fleshed out.

 

[casebro]

It's BCG, not Bgc.

This right here is crap:I don't know any doctors who think like that anymore about any psych disorders. Maybe in the UK? I hear they still think Freud had an evidence based practice.

No physical findings and an improvement when anti-depressants have been used is where fibromyalgia treatment was last time I looked.

It's true there are numerous auto-antibodies there are no tests for. I have one of those syndromes. But there are clear physical findings in my case, no mystery there, just a mystery as to the cause.

The article is from 2018. I'll see if I can find anything more recent.

You do realize that your quote was out of context? Did you miss the part of "used to say...."

 

[casebro]

I've seen suggestions that the FM symptoms are very similar to long Covid, which is also related to immune response, and research on one might help with the other. Some suggestions that mitochondria might be damaged by the virus.

I thought it was common knowledge that Mito is damaged by virus.

 

[casebro]

...

The article is from 2018. I'll see if I can find anything more recent.

Try "FM/a test". It is FDA approved for the diagnosis of FM and is covered by Medicare and other insurers. Maybe the UCDxx has a modern definition of FM?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You do realize that your quote was out of context? Did you miss the part of "used to say...."

Used to say 50 or more years ago and BTW, Fibromyalgia hasn't been recognized long enough to have been claimed to be related to issues with an inferiority complex.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Try "FM/a test". It is FDA approved for the diagnosis of FM and is covered by Medicare and other insurers. Maybe the UCDxx has a modern definition of FM?

That doesn't mean much.

I still haven't had time to look. Patience Grasshopper.

 

[Belz...]

Used to say 50 or more years ago and BTW, Fibromyalgia hasn't been recognized long enough to have been claimed to be related to issues with an inferiority complex.

Sounds like quackery to me. How would such a complex affect such complex, physical systems?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sounds like quackery to me. How would such a complex affect such complex, physical systems?

There's no evidence they do. All that quackery from claiming autism was caused by inadequate mothering to blaming hysteria on women's uteruses has done considerable harm. So when I see a supposed expert telling us fibromyalgia used to be thought to be related to an inferiority complex, I know right away that person has his head up his ass. And you can bet it is a male author.

I don't care if he now claims to have a revelation.


For a study that began in 2018, one would expect some results. Haven't found any yet, I'm still looking.

I did find this very suspicious piece, however, telling patients they needed a $1,080 blood test if they wanted to join in the BCG study. But do check, your insurance might pay. Talk about a red flag!

FDA Approves Clinical Trial to Test Treating Fibromyalgia With TB Vaccine

Gillis said he hopes to recruit thousands of people to join the trial. In order to qualify, people must take EpicGenetic’s FM/a test, and if they receive a positive result (or have already taken the test and indicated they were interested in participating in future research), they can decide if they would like to volunteer to participate in the trial. The test costs $1,080 without insurance, though Gillis said Medicare, CHAMPVA, most PPO insurance plans and some HMO plans will cover it.

That is not how legit research works.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's how a valid study works. This is a RCT using BCG that is in phase 2 but not yet recruiting:

Phase II Clinical Trial: Multi-dosing the BCG Vaccine for Fibromyalgia

I didn't search through the 193 open studies to look for the one with the company selling $1,080 lab tests.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

It's BCG, not Bgc.

This right here is crap:I don't know any doctors who think like that anymore about any psych disorders. Maybe in the UK? I hear they still think Freud had an evidence based practice.

No physical findings and an improvement when anti-depressants have been used is where fibromyalgia treatment was last time I looked.

It's true there are numerous auto-antibodies there are no tests for. I have one of those syndromes. But there are clear physical findings in my case, no mystery there, just a mystery as to the cause.

The article is from 2018. I'll see if I can find anything more recent.

Re the highlighted: dunno where you got that from, but, no, just no. I knew a couple of psychotherapists who might espouse a Freudian idea, but not in mainstream MH practice. The main view I encountered was more that Freud had some historical importance, but was more of a cultural rather than medical or even psychological phenomenon.

 

[casebro]

The patent for the vax treatment is held by Mass General Hospital (Harvard Med school). The lab test is expensive,yes. And, like all new labs, patented too. But price will drop when the holder makes a deal for mass licensing. An example is Rx genetic studies vs 23&Me- Thousands of dollars vs $100.

So I really don't see any reason to dismiss the concept as quackery.

But the big point of my posting is that a common vaccine shows important un-forseen benefits. If a TB vax can treat cancer, what else do we not know about the immune systems?

I'm inclined to think that we have evolved to NEED infections for best health. Probiotics for more than just guts? I wonder what would prevent toe nail fungus? etc.....

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The patent for the vax treatment is held by Mass General Hospital (Harvard Med school). The lab test is expensive,yes. And, like all new labs, patented too. But price will drop when the holder makes a deal for mass licensing. An example is Rx genetic studies vs 23&Me- Thousands of dollars vs $100.

So I really don't see any reason to dismiss the concept as quackery.

You don't find it concerning someone asks you to spend $1,080 or get your insurer to to see if you qualify for their study? And insurance has deductibles and some don't cover labs.

It's not how research is done. Research is funded by companies who plan to profit from it or they get various grants to do research. That site looks like it's luring customers in to buy their lab work.

But the big point of my posting is that a common vaccine shows important un-forseen benefits. If a TB vax can treat cancer, what else do we not know about the immune systems? .....

If they are using a particular strain of BCG I can see why that might be patented. And I can see some company running studies on that strain. Still doesn't legitimize the out of pocket lab costs.

Is there research listed on that link I cited about the phase 2 trial not yet begun?

 

[casebro]

There's no evidence they do. All that quackery from claiming autism was caused by inadequate mothering to blaming hysteria on women's uteruses has done considerable harm. So when I see a supposed expert telling us fibromyalgia used to be thought to be related to an inferiority complex, I know right away that person has his head up his ass. And you can bet it is a male author.

I don't care if he now claims to have a revelation.


For a study that began in 2018, one would expect some results. Haven't found any yet, I'm still looking.

I did find this very suspicious piece, however, telling patients they needed a $1,080 blood test if they wanted to join in the BCG study. But do check, your insurance might pay. Talk about a red flag!

FDA Approves Clinical Trial to Test Treating Fibromyalgia With TB Vaccine

That is not how legit research works.

Well yeah, before they do a study they will want subjects that do have the disease. There is only one test for FM. How would you expect them to recruit?

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Given that my wife is a sufferer, I do hope something comes from it.

 

[casebro]

Here's how a valid study works. This is a RCT using BCG that is in phase 2 but not yet recruiting:

Phase II Clinical Trial: Multi-dosing the BCG Vaccine for Fibromyalgia

I didn't search through the 193 open studies to look for the one with the company selling $1,080 lab tests.

That is EXACTLY the study from the OP. It doesn't even start until 2022.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well yeah, before they do a study they will want subjects that do have the disease. There is only one test for FM. How would you expect them to recruit?

You pay for the screening lab work.

You ask for a physician diagnosis and you list the criteria for the diagnosis.

Those would be typical ways of recruiting volunteers.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

This right here is crap:

They believe it only happens in women and that patients must develop the illness because they have some deep-seated psychological disturbance or inferiority complex.

I don't know any doctors who think like that anymore about any psych disorders. Maybe in the UK? I hear they still think Freud had an evidence based practice.

Just to be clear, you are quoting something that the man being quoted disagrees with and he also does not think that Fybromyalgia is a psych disorder.