Fear-Mongering

[furrod]

9/11 suggests an elevation of the terrorist’s ambitions. The fear comes from imagining what they could do next, if given the chance. I fear a terrorist act using biological or nuclear materials. Blowing up buildings or hijacking aircraft merely pisses me off. It is an affront to the civilization that I am a part of and I shed no tear when the representatives of civilization come down on them hard. I don’t think it’s wise to dismiss 9/11 as an aberration, a one time event that is unlikely to happen again (and if it does, what are the chances of it happening to you). I WANT my leaders to err on the side of caution because I am quite confident that it is pretty much impossible to get it exactly right. I am also quite confident that erring on the side of caution will frequently be characterized as fear-mongering or war-mongering by those who prefer a more submissive posture to the violent acts for attention by the dispossessed of this world.

 

[Oliver]

9/11 suggests an elevation of the terrorist’s ambitions. The fear comes from imagining what they could do next, if given the chance. I fear a terrorist act using biological or nuclear materials. Blowing up buildings or hijacking aircraft merely pisses me off. It is an affront to the civilization that I am a part of and I shed no tear when the representatives of civilization come down on them hard. I don’t think it’s wise to dismiss 9/11 as an aberration, a one time event that is unlikely to happen again (and if it does, what are the chances of it happening to you). I WANT my leaders to err on the side of caution because I am quite confident that it is pretty much impossible to get it exactly right. I am also quite confident that erring on the side of caution will frequently be characterized as fear-mongering or war-mongering by those who prefer a more submissive posture to the violent acts for attention by the dispossessed of this world.

The "elevation level" is an illusion of yours from my point of view. While I agree that 9/11 was extraordinary, it can't happen this way again.

But may I ask: Where does your fear came from? From your friends? The Media? Or Politicians? Who's responsible for your Opinion, who built it?

 

[Cylinder]

Resolve <> Fear

 

[marksman]

But your Media should know it much better

Why? Even the European media falls into the American invulnerability myth.

Heck, you did it when you wrote "9/11 was extraordinary, it can't happen this way again."

When discussing Europe, you talk about terrorism as if it's an event that is banal or mundane. When discussing America you talk about terrorism with words like "extraordinary". You yourself are falling into the trap.

America agrees with you. Attacks on America are estraordinary. Attacks in Europe are ordinary. That's how your media presents it as well as oru media.

The difference is the reaction to it. You react as if it is an ordinary occurrence and your media (and ours) tells you it's ordinary. We react as if it were extraordinary and our media (and yours) tells us it's extraordinary.

What nobody's media is doing is telling America that terror attacks on American soil are not extraordinary. Nobody treats America like it's merely a part of the rest of the world. Everybody, Europe, America and elsewhere, treats America as if under different rules.

telling their people that 9/11 was just another attack like it happens all the time, even if it was the biggest one yet besides Pearl Harbor.

But don't you see the contradiction. It doesn't happen all the time... to us. If the media were to tell us that, we'd reject the message as contrary to the evidence of our own experience.

The ties I see to the 2-party system is that I have the strong impression that the Media tends to portray the Dems or Reps POV much more than a neutral view about the World, giving a f* about what others think.

Even if the US media does tend to discuss the dominant political parties' view more than other peoples' views (and I'm not accepting that presumption as true), what does that have to do with a two-party system? The media could just as easily portray the dominant political parties' view in a parliamentary system. Why is the two-party system to blame for your perception of US media bias?

I still try to find out the differences in society to explain it more factual.

I told you the differences. It's a function of geography and history. You rejected it because it didn't propery criticize the two-party system. I personally think the US and its media would have reacted similarly to 9/11 no matter what form of government it had.

 

[Oliver]

Why? Even the European media falls into the American invulnerability myth.

Heck, you did it when you wrote "9/11 was extraordinary, it can't happen this way again."

When discussing Europe, you talk about terrorism as if it's an event that is banal or mundane. When discussing America you talk about terrorism with words like "extraordinary". You yourself are falling into the trap.

America agrees with you. Attacks on America are estraordinary. Attacks in Europe are ordinary. That's how your media presents it as well as oru media.

The difference is the reaction to it. You react as if it is an ordinary occurrence and your media (and ours) tells you it's ordinary. We react as if it were extraordinary and our media (and yours) tells us it's extraordinary.

What nobody's media is doing is telling America that terror attacks on American soil are not extraordinary. Nobody treats America like it's merely a part of the rest of the world. Everybody, Europe, America and elsewhere, treats America as if under different rules.


But don't you see the contradiction. It doesn't happen all the time... to us. If the media were to tell us that, we'd reject the message as contrary to the evidence of our own experience.


Even if the US media does tend to discuss the dominant political parties' view more than other peoples' views (and I'm not accepting that presumption as true), what does that have to do with a two-party system? The media could just as easily portray the dominant political parties' view in a parliamentary system. Why is the two-party system to blame for your perception of US media bias?


I told you the differences. It's a function of geography and history. You rejected it because it didn't propery criticize the two-party system. I personally think the US and its media would have reacted similarly to 9/11 no matter what form of government it had.

I agree with you that the Media would have responded the same way if Democrats would have run the offices on 9/11. I guess 9/11 was pretty independent from Dems or Reps. It was an patriotic issue.

But patriotism in the US, which the Media seems to have adopted, isn't the truth. It's a patriotic view of the World, not the hard facts.

Yes, the Media here felt into the "invulnerability trap" because they thought the Intelligence should have been much better than we thought. Nevertheless, terrorism isn't an Issue any longer ... since years. So what is the US-Media telling about? They should attack every Politician who babbles about the "Threat" to gain votes because that isn't true.

And I am right that they can't pull off another "Plane attack". That's a fact, no matter if people like Giuliani still tells this crap or not. I miss the Media that actually says Giuliani is telling BS - simply because it isn't true.

Why is that if the Media is neutral?

 

[furrod]

The "elevation level" is an illusion of yours from my point of view. While I agree that 9/11 was extraordinary, it can't happen this way again.

But may I ask: Where does your fear came from? From your friends? The Media? Or Politicians? Who's responsible for your Opinion, who built it?

Are you suggesting that Al Qaeda (and other like minded individuals) always held the ambition to pull off something like 9/11 and that act just made me more aware of their long held intent?

Because of 9/11, terrorists will never again be able to commodore vulnerable vehicles, destroy large structures and kill lots of people?

Most of my information comes from reading the news and the internet. I have this medical disorder where I tend to fall into a mild coma when listening to politicians. I am responsible for my opinion. It has been formulated by what I read, life experience and a little common sense.

 

[Mashuna]

Why is that if the Media is neutral?

I tend to believe that this has something to do with the 2-Party system, meaning that the Media prefers to adopt political opinion instead educating neutrally about the World the way it is

I've never come across this mythical neutral media you talk about. Have you got any examples of what you mean?

 

[Mephisto]

I WANT my leaders to err on the side of caution because I am quite confident that it is pretty much impossible to get it exactly right. I am also quite confident that erring on the side of caution will frequently be characterized as fear-mongering or war-mongering by those who prefer a more submissive posture to the violent acts for attention by the dispossessed of this world.

Oh, I believe that there will eventually be another 9/11, but I don't think it's worth keeping our current administration in power, especially since they're the ones responsible for a whole new generation of terrorists.

I would like my leaders to err on the side of caution too, but where has the Bush administration done that? The ports are still relatively unprotected, and recently a man with a contagious disease skirted his no-fly status by simply taking a plane to Montreal, then a taxi into the U.S. We have even MORE to be afraid of since Bush has declared our country, "safer than it ever has been before!"

Our leaders only want the "fear factor" without taking any actions to curtail the threat.

 

[IXP]

The thing that gets me are statements like "9/11 changed everything", or "terrorism is the greatest threat to our society".

I maintain that even one 9/11 like event per year would not significantly change our society EXCEPT for the effects of irrational fear. Each year we suffer much more property damage due to natural catastrophes, and many times the early deaths due to automobile accidents. Why should terrorism be any different? Why are hurricanes or automobiles not a threat to our society?

IXP

 

[Oliver]

I've never come across this mythical neutral media you talk about. Have you got any examples of what you mean?

Sorry but no, otherwise it wouldn't be so complicated to explain it. What I can say is that after 9/11 the Media in the US was very patriotic and I also heard statements from people in the Media who said that it would have been "unpatriotic" to criticize anything without being labeled this way - and that the media loses the support of Politicians if they report negatively about them, meaning that if they criticize Bush (for example), Bush won't cooperate anymore with the Media who criticized him. (Which isn't very democratic at all)

I try to find these sources again - but independent from these statements, I have the same impression. Somehow the Media seems to be much more relying on politics than here.

Here's a good documentary about this issue if you have some hours left to watch it:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newswar/view/

 

[Oliver]

Are you suggesting that Al Qaeda (and other like minded individuals) always held the ambition to pull off something like 9/11 and that act just made me more aware of their long held intent?

Because of 9/11, terrorists will never again be able to commodore vulnerable vehicles, destroy large structures and kill lots of people?

Most of my information comes from reading the news and the internet. I have this medical disorder where I tend to fall into a mild coma when listening to politicians. I am responsible for my opinion. It has been formulated by what I read, life experience and a little common sense.

No, I say there is no way to pull it off the same way as on 9/11 and I also say that America is pretty safe because all the water between the middle-east and there. The Gov plugged all the holes, there is absolutely no reason to panic.

Okay, so what does your common sense tell you since you don't relay your Opinion on the classic media? I suspect that 9/11 was a unique event to you, are you scared anyway because a unique event that can't happen this way again?

 

[Overman]

No, I say there is no way to pull it off the same way as on 9/11 and I also say that America is pretty safe because all the water between the middle-east and there. The Gov plugged all the holes, there is absolutely no reason to panic.

Okay, so what does your common sense tell you since you don't relay your Opinion on the classic media? I suspect that 9/11 was a unique event to you, are you scared anyway because a unique event that can't happen this way again?

No way a person would ever be able to crash a plane into a building in downtown NY ever again...Just No way



Give it a break Oliver, at least get your facts straight.

 

[Oliver]

No way a person would ever be able to crash a plane into a building in downtown NY ever again...Just No way



Give it a break Oliver, at least get your facts straight.

The "Lidle-Crash"? What a threat, isn't it? You're making no valid point here. I already explained why they can't pull it off the same way as on 9/11...

 

[slingblade]

I fully understand your point about the American generation that didn't make any experiences with attacks on their soil, but why didn't the Media clarify yet that this isn't an extraordinary thing at all in contrast to all the experiences that other Countries made?

I'm not sure what you mean. I've heard this said on the news, plenty of times. "Of course, this kind of thing has become, sadly, almost routine in other parts of the world..." I hear this.

I tend to believe that this has something to do with the 2-Party system, meaning that the Media prefers to adopt political opinion instead educating neutrally about the World the way it is - with terrorism as a pretty old fact that occurs all the time.

Media is entertainment, not politics, and not education. It uses politics, certainly. Media uses everything and anything it can get its hands on. As for education, if our schools can't get it right, what makes you want to expect the news to do so, especially when education isn't newscasting's primary job?

Newscasters are there to report, and that only insofar as their reportage gets them a bigger audience share. They aren't there to be neutral--they are there to make money.

The U.S. flag might as well be a dollar bill, IMO.

As to the OP, no. I do not fear terrorism. Firstly because this is a great, honking big country, and I live in a little podunk town of little strategic importance. We sit next to a major highway. That's it.

Second, because being afraid of it won't help me. Is terrorism something for which you can specifically prepare? No. So why fear it? It will either get me, or it won't. I am concerned for others, though. People in our big metro areas, people who live near military installations, people near the nation's capitol...I worry for them, sometimes. But I can't help them.

No. I don't fear terrorism or worry about it. I am, however, always saddened and angered by it.

 

[marksman]

I agree with you that the Media would have responded the same way if Democrats would have run the offices on 9/11.

Oliver, I said that it would have been the same regardless of the form of government, not the party in power. You blamed the two-party system. Could you please explain to me why you think the two=party system is to blame for what you perceive to be media bias.

But patriotism in the US, which the Media seems to have adopted, isn't the truth. It's a patriotic view of the World, not the hard facts.

All media has biases. That's because news is a commodity. You think ythe news you watch is unbiased because it reflects most closely that which you perceive to be the true state of affairs. That's because you are the target audience of the news outlet whose news you purchase.

Why did the US have a pro-US slant after 9/11? Because the media is comprise dof AMericans, many of whom were experiencing the same shock as the rest of America and because they were pitching news to their audiences.

Why is the media in the Middle East (even those not owned and operated by governments) slanted in the other direction? Because they are a product of their societies.

German media is not neutral. It simply reflects the views of the Germans who watch it. If people thought the news was innacurate (and people judge a news accuracies by the way it jives with their preconceptions of the world), their viewership would drop and another media outlet would work to pick up those viewers/readers.

Yes, the Media here felt into the "invulnerability trap" because they thought the Intelligence should have been much better than we thought.

And because it fit their preconception of America.

They should attack every Politician who babbles about the "Threat" to gain votes because that isn't true.

The media reports. It does not attack. That's not their job.

I miss the Media that actually says Giuliani is telling BS - simply because it isn't true.

The media merely reports events. If someone with credibility calls Giuliani a liar, they'll report it. Op ed pieces will call people liars for saying things that aren't true.

Why is that if the Media is neutral?

Define "neutral".

 

[Darth Rotor]

But you ignored to address the topic of this thread - if you recognized this fact.

Why should I dignify your strawman with other than the contempt it, and you, deserve? I was commenting to marksman on the Eurotrash mindset, which you display with each troll. When blowhards from a continent full of collective security leaches put on airs, I am happy to stick a pin in your balloon of self importance.

DR

 

[Overman]

No, I say there is no way to pull it off the same way as on 9/11 and I also say that America is pretty safe because all the water between the middle-east and there. The Gov plugged all the holes, there is absolutely no reason to panic.

Okay, so what does your common sense tell you since you don't relay your Opinion on the classic media? I suspect that 9/11 was a unique event to you, are you scared anyway because a unique event that can't happen this way again?

Here you are stating the government we shouldn't trust is the same government that we are trusting to plug all the holes.

 

[Oliver]

I'm not sure what you mean. I've heard this said on the news, plenty of times. "Of course, this kind of thing has become, sadly, almost routine in other parts of the world..." I hear this.

Well, that's the same way how propaganda works - if you hear something often enough, it's automatically/unconscientiously accepted as truth.

Just like in this example:

Media is entertainment, not politics, and not education. It uses politics, certainly. Media uses everything and anything it can get its hands on. As for education, if our schools can't get it right, what makes you want to expect the news to do so, especially when education isn't newscasting's primary job?

It isn't the primary job of the Media itself to educate - but it's the "News" job to present the News independently, also addressing negative news about the own Favorite as neutral as reporting about the opposing party. Fox has a history to air biased news, for example.

But I'm also talking about patriotism, meaning that the Media is much more pro-american in the US than our media in germany is pro-german when they're reporting about local scandals.

Newscasters are there to report, and that only insofar as their reportage gets them a bigger audience share. They aren't there to be neutral--they are there to earn money.

The U.S. flag might as well be a dollar bill, IMO.

As to the OP, no. I do not fear terrorism. Firstly because this is a great, honking big country, and I live in a little podunk town of little strategic importance. We sit next to a major highway. That's it.

Second, because being afraid of it won't help me. Is terrorism something for which you can specifically prepare? No. So why fear it? It will either get me, or it won't. I am concerned for others, though. People in our big metro areas, people who live near military installations, people near the nation's capitol...I worry for them, sometimes. But I can't help them.

No. I don't fear terrorism or worry about it. I am, however, always saddened and angered by it.

I feel pretty much the same when a terrorist-attack happens. Do you think that you would feel otherwise if you would live in a big city like NY, for example?

And do you recognize "Fearmongering" in the Media and in political speeches?

 

[Oliver]

Here you are stating the government we shouldn't trust is the same government that we are trusting to plug all the holes.

You miss the point here and it makes no sense to derail this thread any longer - I will start a new thread about this issue later.

To get back: Are you afraid of Terrorism and if so, why? Because Friends, Media, Politicians?

 

[Oliver]

Why should I dignify your strawman with other than the contempt it, and you, deserve? I was commenting to marksman on the Eurotrash mindset, which you display with each troll. When blowhards from a continent full of collective security leaches put on airs, I am happy to stick a pin in your balloon of self importance.

DR

Which means you replied just to say anything?
Relax and step back if you have no own opinion or comprehension about the Topic other then just to disagree.