Fat Acceptance

[Primus]

what if someone was excessively large naturally (think american wrestler), they also not get a seat comfortable enough to sit in for something thats not their fault ?

It's not just the seats either. I read an interview with The Big Show (7 foot, 450lb) who couldn't fit into the plane toilet on a long haul flight.

Four air stewardesses had to hold towels up around him to protect his modesty whilst he got his backside in through the door and did his business.
I didn't get the impression this made him very popular with the rest of the passengers.

WRT the OP did anyone else read fat acceptance meaning morbidly overweight people accepting that they are fat and not heavy set, big boned ect.

 

[AvalonXQ]

With other medical disorders, we don't judge people for having them or kibbutz on their treatment. Deaf people who could get cochlear implants but choose not to, folk in wheelchairs who choose not have their legs replaced by prosthetics, burn victims who don't have reconstructive surgery.

So even assuming that being overweight is a serious medical issue, it's inconsistent to demonize the overweight for choosing not to fix it, or to refuse to accommodate their resulting disability.

And having dealt personally with people with eating disorders, I would rather they not feel external pressure to change.

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

It looks to me like the OP has constructed a straw fattie.

The Body Acceptance Movement is about not hating yourself and your body no matter what the size and to try to be happy and healthy on your premises. To stop obsessing and live your life now instead of "later when I'm X lbs smaller".

As evidenced by my own petite self, people of every size are welcome to accept themselves as they are. It is not a requirement to be above any arbitrary and disproven measurement to feel welcome at body acceptance blogs or forums. So to answer that question, slim people are very welcome. Although any attempt at shaming or proselytizing will go down poorly.

As pointed out by SezMe the generally accepted study that checked morbidity showed that the only categories that had any increased morbidity was underweight (by post 1998 bmi charts) and the morbidly obese (by same chart) - i.e those too obese to move themselves. The underweight were slightly worse off, then the morbidly obese followed by the normal weight group. The "somewhat overweight" and the "overweight" groups had the best survival but generally the differences were pretty small and it is hard to say that any particular weight in the span that was neither underweight nor morbidly obese is healthier. Please note that this study used post 1998 bmi cutoffs as measurement. BMI is of itself only useful on population level and the decision to move overweight from pre 1998 bmi 26 to post 1998 bmi 24.9 made millions overweight over night was made for no really good reason. - When people start going on about health around fat people they almost never bother to actually check their facts.

I never take fat haters seriously when they start going on about health. They are really only looking for an acceptable target to pour their hatred and their own body issues on.

So the next time you feel like bashing a fattie and congratulating yourself on your only achievement in life being remaining a certain size - ask yourself this: if there was enough evidence that the healthiest weight category is that one or two pips above mine - would I then go out of my way to gain and retain the "missing" fat for the sake of my health, despite what problems that would cause in my daily life and how hard I would have to work to maintain that? (If you have a quick metabolism for example, you might have to plan your entire day around eating so you don't miss important calories. You would also have to keep eating even after you are stuffed, to keep this up.)

Well, would you?

(And if you try a smart-aleck lie and say you would, the best evidence we have at the moment is that the category classed as mildly to moderately overweight is the healthiest one. Better start eating.)

As far as can be said at this stage a sedentary lifestyle and poor eating habits are a health hazard at every size. Active fatties are no more unhealthy than non fatties engaged in a similar amount of activity.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Where I was brought up the pinnacle of fat acceptance was slapping it and riding the waves. Yeehaws were strictly optional.

 

[tyr_13]

It looks to me like the OP has constructed a straw fattie.

The Body Acceptance Movement is about not hating yourself and your body no matter what the size and to try to be happy and healthy on your premises. To stop obsessing and live your life now instead of "later when I'm X lbs smaller".

As evidenced by my own petite self, people of every size are welcome to accept themselves as they are. It is not a requirement to be above any arbitrary and disproven measurement to feel welcome at body acceptance blogs or forums. So to answer that question, slim people are very welcome. Although any attempt at shaming or proselytizing will go down poorly.

As pointed out by SezMe the generally accepted Stanford study that checked morbidity showed that the only categories that had any increased morbidity was underweight (by post 1998 bmi charts) and the morbidly obese (by same chart). The underweight were slightly worse off, then the morbidly obese followed by the normal weight group. The "somewhat overweight" and the "overweight" groups had the best survival but generally the differences were pretty small and it is hard to say that any particular weight in the span that was neither underweight nor morbidly obese is healthier. Please note that this study used post 1998 bmi cutoffs as measurement. BMI is of itself only useful on population level and the decision to move overweight from pre 1998 bmi 26 to post 1998 bmi 24.9 made millions overweight over night was made for no really good reason. - When people start going on about health around fat people they almost never bother to actually check their facts.

I never take fat haters seriously when they start going on about health. They are really only looking for an acceptable target to pour their hatred and their own body issues on.

So the next time you feel like bashing a fattie and congratulating yourself on your only achievement in life being remaining a certain size - ask yourself this: if there was enough evidence that the healthiest weight category is that one or two pips above mine - would I then go out of my way to gain and retain the "missing" fat for the sake of my health, despite what problems that would cause in my daily life and how hard I would have to work to maintain that? (If you have a quick metabolism for example, you might have to plan your entire day around eating so you don't miss important calories. You would also have to keep eating even after you are stuffed, to keep this up.)

Well, would you?

Well said!

 

[Skepticemea]

That's a heavy comment, Skepticemea. I think you should lighten up.

I weighed it up before typing it.

 

[Scopedog]

This seems to be more about fat and marriage than just fat. Is your spouse overweight?

My partner is not fat (yet), but she knows where I stand on the issue and probably is genetically predisposed to not be capable of significant weight gain anyway. I on the other hand gain weight by thinking about food and am constantly thinking about what I'm going to eat or not eat and worried about whether my clothes still fits because I don't want to buy new bigger clothes (having to buy smaller clothes is fine). I don't think I should accept myself as fat (I am not at this time) and I don't think my partner should either. She's told me that she would, but I would hate myself and be more unbearable than I am now. The Fat Acceptance Movement is a more formal codification of the idea that one can "let themselves go" and should still expect the respect and admiration of everyone else who struggles to maintain a healthy body weight (such as myself).

My understanding is that being overweight is not, of itself, unhealthy. Except, of course, for people who are morbidly overweight. What is your understanding?

My understanding is that the physical appearance of a person's body is an aspect and provides an insight into their personality, identity, and habits. Supposedly, the Western Ideal of the Greeks combined the honing of the intellect along with the honing of the body. We've come a long way from that now. The jocks focus on jocking and the geeks focus on geeking but I think we're moving back in the right direction. To me, fat acceptance as a movement is certainly the wrong direction.

There you go again with the mate stuff. How about you really state what this thread is about.

Hopefully I've cleared it up some.

A third time with the fat mate stuff. C'mon, Scopedog, spill the beans. Did your mate accept you when you were fat or did you meet him/her only after you had slimmed down?

I was always alone when I was fat and I am still pretty reclusive. Like I said above, my partner said she would accept me but that troubles me because I would not accept myself.

I think its okay to be overweight and be happy with yourself. I think its not okay to promote the idea that being overweight or obese is healthy or desirable. It bothers me when I hear people talk about losing weight but never do anything about it. I say, if you have a problem and aren't doing anything about it, you have no right to complain and if you are doing something about it, there is no need to complain.

 

[steve s]

My understanding is that being overweight is not, of itself, unhealthy. Except, of course, for people who are morbidly overweight. What is your understanding?

You don't need to be morbidly obese to significantly increase your risk of disease...

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_consequences.htm

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Even moderate weight excess (10 to 20 pounds for a person of average height) increases the risk of death, particularly among adults aged 30 to 64 years.
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A weight gain of 11 to 18 pounds increases a person's risk of developing type 2 diabetes to twice that of individuals who have not gained weight..
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[Skepticemea]

Why does anyone care that the guy opposite them on the bus/train/charabanc full of Ugandan nuns is overweight? Like I give a **** that you're an opinionated arse?

 

[sadhatter]

Here is the way i see it as someone who has lived on the far side of each side of that fence himself ( was over 300, now about 130).

On one hand i really hate when people will go out of their way to insult an overweight person. And it really irks me when someone makes fun of the actual horrid crap they are, or may have to go through. Reason being there are certain conditions that make losing weight pretty hard.

On the other, these conditions are few and far between in relation to the massive folks walking around. And as such, any situation in which a person would be angry with a thin person for the same thing, i see fair game.

If a massive gent cannot fathom that walking down a thin isle in a store blocks it for everyone, said massive get is going to get the same amount of colorful language that a thin guy blocking the isle with a cart would. Especially, if said massive person decides to give a crappy look or comment ( as i find happens all the time.) when one attempts to get by.

All in all, i don't think fat folks are the smokers of my life ( Smokers being one of the final groups it is okay to mock, hassle, and otherwise be knobs to, sans reason.), but i do think they have the responsibility to plan their lives around their weight, it is not everyone else's job to accommodate them ( a good example was a gent in my old job that was huge and went through office chairs like most people wear out kleenex. To me, he should have been responsible for the payment of the chairs that were destroyed.) , but as long as their weight isn't effecting me directly, live and let live.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Having people in my own life who try desperately to keep to a healthy weight (and cannot do so due to medical conditions and/or medications) I feel that the universal "just eat less and exercise more you slob" is quite rude. I find it especially rude when such comments come from a person who I can tell (from their lack of muscle tone) is only thin due to a fluke of metabolism.

Even at my thinnest and healthiest, when I was walking miles every day and eating very little, I still looked big. It upset me to no end that even with all that effort I simply went from a size 18 to a size 14 and stayed there. Some people can sit on the couch all day eating Cheetos and look like a walking skeleton, some can exercise and eat right for years and still look like something out of a Rubens painting. I became a much happier person when I just accepted that and started working on feeling good (and having muscle tone) rather than looking good.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I feel that the universal "just eat less and exercise more you slob" is quite rude.

Universal ? Do you really hear that a lot ?

 

[crimresearch]

Which ties into the question of 'acceptance' when parents make their kids hundreds of pounds overweight, or feed them into diabetes or gout.

 

[Complexity]

I searched and didn't find a thread about this.

What does "fat acceptance" mean to you? I'm curious about responses from both fat and non-fat people about the validity or dangers of the movement.

In your future thread-starters, please provide more background and offer up your opinions first.

 

[Scopedog]

In your future thread-starters, please provide more background and offer up your opinions first.

Very well.

 

[Kaylee]

I searched and didn't find a thread about this.

What does "fat acceptance" mean to you? I'm curious about responses from both fat and non-fat people about the validity or dangers of the movement.

I have not read much about that movement, but to me it means accepting the state of being overweight or obese as an acceptable norm.

I'm not in favor of that because to me that means the same thing as us, as an entire society, throwing our hands up in the air and giving up on this perplexing problem that has only occurred on a massive scale fairly recently (1980s or so).


Even though I'm in the process of losing weight, again, for the 6th time since my late 20s -- I don't think we should give up figuring this out.

I'm not ready to give up yet at any rate.

And before anyone posts with a comment along the lines of:

"Move more, eat less"
"A calorie is a calorie -- you must burn off more than you consume"

My response is yes, of course, that is true, but IMHO it's more complicated than that.

Personally, I have finally understood that I only get good results when the majority of what I eat is "whole foods" with high fiber and little to no added processed sugar. We are biochemical machines and eating sets off a cascade of biological reactions that is affected by not only how much we eat but also by what we eat.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Universal ? Do you really hear that a lot ?

Yes, I've heard it a great deal. Often from little slips of women, hardly more than girls, with skinny stick arms and next to no muscle on them. Occasionally from people who don't do this themselves, do not seem to understand that they have won the metabolism lottery and should stop gloating at the rest of us.

Actually, I have never been insulted when the person who says this to me has obviously followed this advice themselves. When someone with nice muscle tone and possibly the little bit of extra skin at their neck that indicates massive weight loss says something like that you do well to listen. Then again, people who have actually followed that advice usually have more to say than just empty platitudes.

 

[23_Tauri]

I would equate ' fat acceptance ' with drug or alcohol abuse acceptance, or any other behavior which is self destructive.

This ^

I don't mind if other people choose to be fat, that's up to them. I'm a smoker and I don't expect people to pick on me for my habit, so why should I pick on fat people?

In the UK, taxpayers pay for the surge in obesity and obesity-related illnesses through the state-funded healthcare system. Tobacco is taxed to pay for the cost of treated smoking related illnesses, what about the clincally obese? I'm not advocating taxing high fat and sugary foods, for this would penalise normal weight people who enjoy the odd treat, just as much as the obese, but at what point do people who have brought their ill-health upon themselves be made to pay the cost of their health care?

Tricky dilemma.

 

[Kaylee]

This ^

I don't mind if other people choose to be fat, that's up to them, but I have a big (no pun intended) issue with the normalisation of obesity.

In the UK, taxpayers pay for the surge in obesity and obesity-related illnesses through the state-funded healthcare system. Tobacco is taxed to pay for the cost of treated smoking related illnesses, what about the clincally obese? I'm not advocating taxing high fat and sugary foods, for this would penalise normal weight people who enjoy the odd treat, just as much as the obese, but at what point do people who have brought their ill-health upon themselves be made to pay the cost of their health care?

Tricky dilemma.

A tax might be a good idea if it was levied at an amount that would not make the odd treat an unaffordable luxery even for the poor.

What I personally find annoying is how in the US many healthy foods cost more than their unhealthier counterparts. For example I can get 20 pounds of white rice for $5.00 but only about 3 lbs of brown rice for the same amount of money. I can buy a huge loaf of white bread loaded with corn syrup for 99 cents, but have to pay over $3.00 for a smaller loaf of 100% whole grain bread. Perhaps the difference is not that much money for an individual, but it can be more significant for a family that is struggling paycheck to paycheck. It would be nice to see that price differential between healthy and unhealthy foods disappear, or at least get much smaller.

I also think it would be good to see processed foods with added processed sugar stripped of its fiber sold in separate stores much like alcohol is only sold in liquor stores in most states in the US. Not going to happen, but I think that such a policy would be beneficial over the long run.

 

[crimresearch]

A tax might be a good idea if it was levied at an amount that would not make the odd treat an unaffordable luxery even for the poor.

What I personally find annoying is how in the US many healthy foods cost more than their unhealthier counterparts. For example I can get 20 pounds of white rice for $5.00 but only about 3 lbs of brown rice for the same amount of money. I can buy a huge loaf of white bread loaded with corn syrup for 99 cents, but have to pay over $3.00 for a smaller loaf of 100% whole grain bread. Perhaps the difference is not that much money for an individual, but it can be more significant for a family that is struggling paycheck to paycheck. It be nice to see that price differential between healthy and unhealthy foods disappear or at least get much smaller.

I also think it would be good to see processed foods with added processed sugar stripped of its fiber sold in separate stores much like alcohol is only sold in liquor stores in most states in the US. Not going to happen, but I think that such a policy would be beneficial over the long run.

Benefical to health, not to ADM profits.