False Memory Syndrome

[Oleron]

Oh I see. We miss the point because you tell us that there is no FMS.
Sorry Luci, I didn't realise you were the arbiter of all knowledge on this subject.

Incidentally, skepticism HAS debunked this whole area - that's how we found out about FMS in the first place.

 

[Lucianarchy]

Oh I see. We miss the point because you tell us that there is no FMS.
Sorry Luci, I didn't realise you were the arbiter of all knowledge on this subject.

I'm not, that's why I have provided the scientific evidence which completely debunks and demolishes the quackery of the syndrome. Do feel you have to support something so vile, even if Randi mistakenly put his name to it?

 

[Lothian]

You miss the point. The syndrome has been completely debunked as quackery. There is no syndrome. Period.

Pedophile's hide behind the FMS quackery, and Randi has put his name to it, quite sickeneing considering how he stands for skepticism. Skepticism has debunked the syndrome.

The only 'clients' I am concerend for here are the children who have been victims of abuse.

So let me see two people both claim to be Mary queen of Scots in a past life.

I say ah at least one must have a false memory,

but you say that a skeptic says no, there is no such thing as a false memory so they must both be telling the truth.

I say you are a troll that does not understand skepticism.

But I dare say you will correct me and say how alien abductions and past life regression has been skeptically proven and how two people can both remember being the same person in a past life and how people don't falsely 'remember' being in a hot air balloon as a child even though they claim to remember it.

 

[Ersby]

Do feel you have to support something so vile

Since you are, after all, someone who wishes the death and suffering of countless people to bolster your self-opinion(re. your desire for your predictions of disaster to come true), I find your high handedness here somewhat hypocritical.

Also, FMS doesn't fall under the category "paranormal", and this thread is in the wrong place. I suggest the politics forum.

(Indeed, it could be argued that, in the light of Lucian's increasingly unsuccessful attempts to put across his credo, he is now attempting to convince himself that everyone here is a closet peadophile and can therefore be ignored.)

 

[Oleron]

No Luci. You have provided some articles which QUESTION the authenticity of FMS and go very much against the mainstream of current thinking in this area.
That is not the same as "completely debunks and demolishes the quackery of the syndrome".

As for supporting something so "vile", well I don't have any axe to grind here. Personally I couldn't care less if the syndrome existed or not.

It would be helpful to the debate if you calmed down and stopped allowing your emotions to get the better of your reasoning.

To go back to alien abductions, believing that FMS doesn't exist means that either these abductions really happened or the people involved are persistent liars. I can believe the lying option for at least some of the abductees but ALL of them?
I don't buy that.

I think it likely that in some of the abduction cases, people like John Mack have unwittingly implanted these ideas into suggestable minds. Simple as that.

 

[Lucianarchy]

Since you are, after all, someone who wishes the death and suffering of countless people to bolster your self-opinion(re. your desire for your predictions of disaster to come true), I find your high handedness here somewhat hypocritical.

That's because you're lying about what you disengenously claim I 'desire'. Don't let bitterness get the better of you.

Standing up for abused children is hardly what I'd call 'high handedness', it is the sort of smear supporters of FMS quackery are known to peddle though.

 

[Lucianarchy]

No Luci. You have provided some articles which QUESTION the authenticity of FMS and go very much against the mainstream of current thinking in this area.
That is not the same as "completely debunks and demolishes the quackery of the syndrome".

Mainstream science accepts that the syndrome of false memory is bogus quackery. That's a fact. The FMS quacks are in the minority, shrinking all the time due to the exposure of the likes of Underwager and Loftus. Pedophiles hide behind the FMS quackery.

There is no syndrome.

Understand yet?

 

[Lucianarchy]

Alien abductions are often 'screen memories' for more earthly abuse.

 

[Lothian]

Alien abductions are often 'screen memories' for more earthly abuse.

Often ? and other times ?

When answering don’t forget your statement that there is no such thing as a false memory.

 

[Jeff Corey]

A policy statement by the American Psychological Association : [ur
Under "What's the Bottom Line?"
"First, it's important to state that most people who were sexually abused as children remember all or part of what happened to them..."
(Link not working, will try to add new one)

 

[Lucianarchy]

Often ? and other times ?

When answering don’t forget your statement that there is no such thing as a false memory.

How dense can you be, Lothian?

There is no syndome.

 

[Lucianarchy]

A policy statement by the American Psychological Association : [ur
Under "What's the Bottom Line?"
"First, it's important to state that most people who were sexually abused as children remember all or part of what happened to them..."
(Link not working, will try to add new one)

Yes, and some don't. Some form screen memories to protect them from the trauma.

There is no syndrome.

 

[Operaider]

quote]Alien abductions are often 'screen memories' for more earthly abuse.[/quote] So they are not false memories they're just not true memories.

Kinda like my memories of your failed predictions, right?

From reading through your quotes it’s obvious that you don't have anything to support your case. This has left you with very few options and you have clearly seized onto one means to make your case with a vise like grip. Demonize the competition. In your quotes and subsequent posts you associate us with everything from pedophiles to Nazis, while dodging the facts as franticly as possibly. I do partially agree with one thing in your quotes:

The participants in this symposium are people of courage and fortitude, and as they speak eloquently to the issues of the day, it becomes crystal clear that this "memory war," as Anna Salter asserts, "...Is not an academic debate at all; It is a political fight."

I do believe that people on your side believe this is a political debate. Because political debates are won by persuasion and not by facts. Unfortunately for you this is not politics and no amount of slandering the competition will make it so. This is academic and the facts make the case.

 

[Lothian]

How dense can you be, Lothian?

It depends on lung inflation but I would say about 1.0 g/cm³

There is no syndome. [/B]

Syndrome- Chambers dictionary. Concurrence, especially of symptoms.


If two people have the same sympton there is a concurrence. You do not say that the syndrome affects only a few people you say there is NO syndrome. So there is NO concurrence. There are not two people who have had a false memory.

How ignorant can you be ?

 

[Jeff Corey]

Yes, and some don't. Some form screen memories to protect them from the trauma...

"Screen memories" are a term that Freud used in at least two ways. In 1899, in his first discussion of this, he stated that earlier memories could screen later events. Then he used the opposite process in later papers. The term is not used in memory research because of its unnecessary Freudian baggage. The terms retroactive and proactive interference are used to describe the inferering effects of later tasks on earlier ones and vice versa.
"Screen memories" have little, if any, empirical grounding, as opposed to false memories, which have been documented.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*

There is no syndrome.

(repeated ten times)

AWWWw, Luci. This is not like you! You used to do better than Xanta"WE KNOW IT WORKS"Olaf. Just repeating the same crap over and over is not gonna cut much ice around here.




Hans

 

[Operaider]

I tell you what Luci,

When you first started this post i thought your point was idiotic.
But after 6th time you posted "There is no syndrome", you're beginning to win me over. I guess you don't need facts to prove your case. Simple repetition is the key.

 

[Operaider]

quoterepeated ten times)

AWWWw, Luci. This is not like you! You used to do better than Xanta"WE KNOW IT WORKS"Olaf. Just repeating the same crap over and over is not gonna cut much ice around here.

Wow, I didn't realize it was so obvious to everyone. I hadn't even seen HANS's message before typing mine. Time to learn a new trick Luci

 

[Lucianarchy]

(repeated ten times)

JENNIFER A. HOULT earned degrees in harp, computer science and religion, pursued a career in Artificial Intelligence Software Engineering, and later returned to a career in music. In 1988, she filed a civil suit against her father - a member of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation - (J. Hoult v. D.P. Hoult), whom she alleged had sexually abused her throughout her childhood. In 1993, this case was unanimously decided in her favor, and she was awarded monetary damages. However, Hoult has seen the facts of her case twisted and misreported in the media and by FMS proponents. She writes:

"Since 1995, I have become aware of the parallel between the intimidation and silencing in the microcosm of the abusive family and in the macrocosm of a society that is ill at ease in dealing with the abuse of children. During my childhood my father protected himself from being held accountable by threatening me into silence. I believe that published documents demonstrate how some members and supporters of false memory groups publish false statements that defame and intimidate victims of proven violence and their supporters. Such altered accounts are used to discredit others in court and in the press." -- Silencing the Victim: The Politics of Discrediting Child Abuse Survivors, p. 125.

ROSS E. CHEIT is a professor in the Department of Political Science, Brown University. Cheit, who as an adult recovered memories of abuse by a camp counselor, has established an archive of _corroborated cases_ of recovered memories here.
From the Abstract of Cheit's article:


"Some self-proclaimed skeptics of recovered memory claim that traumatic childhood events simply cannot be forgotten at the time only to be remembered later in life. This claim has been made repeatedly by the Advisory Board members of a prominent advocacy group for parents accused of sexual abuse, the so-called False Memory Syndrome Foundation. The research project described in this article identifies and documents the growing number of cases that have been ignored or distorted by such skeptics. To date, this project has documented 35 cases in which recovered memories of traumatic childhood events were corroborated by clear and convincing evidence." False Representations About True Cases of Recovered Memory. (p. 141) (Note: The archive now has 45 corroborated cases.)

 

[JMA]

Dear Lucianarchy,

Why do you still post on a forum like JREF?

I mean, there is a lot of paranormal forum on the web. Just go there and post your stuff on it. You'll be a big star there. I have the impression that you are a little bit masochistic by posting that kind of topic in here...