Executive Privilege Abused Once More

KoihimeNakamura

Creativity Murderer
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URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/19/AR2007071902625.html?hpid=topnews

"Bush administration officials unveiled a bold new assertion of executive authority yesterday in the dispute over the firing of nine U.S. attorneys, saying that the Justice Department will never be allowed to pursue contempt charges initiated by Congress against White House officials once the president has invoked executive privilege."

Also reminds me of: Nixon. Wonder what happened to him?
 
URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/19/AR2007071902625.html?hpid=topnews

"Bush administration officials unveiled a bold new assertion of executive authority yesterday in the dispute over the firing of nine U.S. attorneys, saying that the Justice Department will never be allowed to pursue contempt charges initiated by Congress against White House officials once the president has invoked executive privilege."

Also reminds me of: Nixon. Wonder what happened to him?

deadhorse.gif



All United States Attorneys serve at the "pleasure of the president." He can fire them at any time for any reason. Why is that so hard to understand.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00000541----000-.html
U.S. Code Collection

TITLE 28 > PART II > CHAPTER 35 > S 541

S 541. United States attorneys

(a) The President shall appoint, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, a United States attorney for each judicial district.
(b) Each United States attorney shall be appointed for a term of four years. On the expiration of his term, a United States attorney shall continue to perform the duties of his office until his successor is appointed and qualifies.
(c) Each United States attorney is subject to removal by the President.
 
[qimg]http://www.frank462.cnc.net/gifs/deadhorse.gif[/qimg]


All United States Attorneys serve at the "pleasure of the president." He can fire them at any time for any reason. Why is that so hard to understand.

I can’t think of anyone who disputes that the President has the ability to fire US Attorneys. The question is why were these US Attorneys fired? That is where the potential scandal lies.

If they were fired because they would not file frivolous charges against Democratic candidates in the months before a close election, or they would not ignore corruption charges against Republican donors, that is a serious problem regardless of the legality of it.
 
[qimg]http://www.frank462.cnc.net/gifs/deadhorse.gif[/qimg]


All United States Attorneys serve at the "pleasure of the president." He can fire them at any time for any reason. Why is that so hard to understand.
.

ANd your boss has the power to fire you, so all wrongful termination lawsuits are bunk in your view?
 
ANd your boss has the power to fire you, so all wrongful termination lawsuits are bunk in your view?

Under American law, there is no lawsuit for wrongful termination unless a statute (or employment contract) specifically grants the employee protection from termination. I personally think the firing of US Attorneys for political reasons is transparent and shameful. However, I can find nothing illegal about it and certainly nothing that would place it in the category of "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Legally, it's no better or worse than Clinton's "Travelgate". Ethically, it's a big fat stinking pile of crap for which Gonzales and the President should always be remembered and vilified.
 
in my opinion, firing them probably wasn't illegal (then again, i am not a lawyer).

the resulting coverup - and refusal of certain players to testify before congress - i think very well may be.
 
Seems to me that it's Congress that's abusing its privilige.

I can’t think of anyone who disputes that the President has the ability to fire US Attorneys. The question is why were these US Attorneys fired? That is where the potential scandal lies.
And does Congress have the right to subpoena anyone simply to satisfy their curiosity? If they want to know what Bush eats for breakfast, can they subpoena the White House cooks? Or is there such a thing as privacy? The hypocrisy here stinks. Leftists complain about Bush pushing for more powers to violate people's privacy to fight terrorism, and they complain. When Congress violates privacy to investigate completely legal, albeit perhaps unseemly, behavior, it's Bush that's blamed. If Congress were controlled by Republicans, and they were handing out Contempt of Congress charges for people refusing to cooperate with invasive terrorism investigations, I'm sure the Left would be screaming bloody murder.
 
[qimg]http://www.frank462.cnc.net/gifs/deadhorse.gif[/qimg]


All United States Attorneys serve at the "pleasure of the president." He can fire them at any time for any reason. Why is that so hard to understand.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00000541----000-.html
U.S. Code Collection

TITLE 28 > PART II > CHAPTER 35 > S 541

S 541. United States attorneys

(a) The President shall appoint, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, a United States attorney for each judicial district.
(b) Each United States attorney shall be appointed for a term of four years. On the expiration of his term, a United States attorney shall continue to perform the duties of his office until his successor is appointed and qualifies.
(c) Each United States attorney is subject to removal by the President.
Boy is your head in the sand!

[zombie voice]must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....[/zombie voice]
 
Seems to me that it's Congress that's abusing its privilige.

And does Congress have the right to subpoena anyone simply to satisfy their curiosity?

Yes.

[quote[ If they want to know what Bush eats for breakfast, can they subpoena the White House cooks? Or is there such a thing as privacy? The hypocrisy here stinks. Leftists complain about Bush pushing for more powers to violate people's privacy to fight terrorism, and they complain. [/quote]

The two issues are not alike at all. Once you enter public service, your bosses are within their rights to investigate if the organization they run is running correctly. And in private, Bush's powers DO run periously close to depriving too much liberty.

When Congress violates privacy to investigate completely legal, albeit perhaps unseemly, behavior, it's Bush that's blamed. If Congress were controlled by Republicans, and they were handing out Contempt of Congress charges for people refusing to cooperate with invasive terrorism investigations, I'm sure the Left would be screaming bloody murder.

... There is this thing called corruption. Mind you, it's more the lies over it that are now in issue
 
Boy is your head in the sand!

[zombie voice]must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....must repeat talking point...mustn't think....[/zombie voice]

skeptigirl said:
I believe I thoroughly covered this topic in this post if you care to get past the talking points hypnotic suggestion, frank462. Of course it requires you have an attention span longer than 30 seconds.

Hi skeptigirl,
It is obvious that we totally disagree on this subject. From reading a lot of your posts in other threads, I thought you were above using personal attacks. I guess I was wrong. And by the way, in case you haven't noticed, politics is a dirty business. There are scoundrels on both sides of the aisle.


Best regards,
Frank
 
Seems to me that it's Congress that's abusing its privilige.

And does Congress have the right to subpoena anyone simply to satisfy their curiosity? If they want to know what Bush eats for breakfast, can they subpoena the White House cooks? Or is there such a thing as privacy? The hypocrisy here stinks. Leftists complain about Bush pushing for more powers to violate people's privacy to fight terrorism, and they complain. When Congress violates privacy to investigate completely legal, albeit perhaps unseemly, behavior, it's Bush that's blamed. If Congress were controlled by Republicans, and they were handing out Contempt of Congress charges for people refusing to cooperate with invasive terrorism investigations, I'm sure the Left would be screaming bloody murder.
Do you find that fantasies like this actually compensate you for the irksome necessity of living in the real world?
 
The two issues are not alike at all. Once you enter public service, your bosses are within their rights to investigate if the organization they run is running correctly.
Except that their boss isn't Congress but the President. And one can argue that when one calls foreign agents in foreign countries, the country is within its rights to record the foreign national's conversation, and with it yours.
 
Hi skeptigirl,
It is obvious that we totally disagree on this subject. From reading a lot of your posts in other threads, I thought you were above using personal attacks. I guess I was wrong. And by the way, in case you haven't noticed, politics is a dirty business. There are scoundrels on both sides of the aisle.


Best regards,
Frank
There are personal attacks and then there is pointing out to people that they are being influenced by persuasion tactics.

How do you tell someone they've been conned without insulting them? Do you know how many times Gonzales repeated that straw man, "serves at the pleasure of the President" in his testimony before the Congressional Oversight Committee?

How Much Pleasure Should One President Have?
Washington D.C. is in a fuss over the replacement of eight United States Attorneys after President Bush’s reelection in 2004. One of the main talking points of the Bush administration’s minions is that no matter what the reason for these eight attorneys’ demanded resignation, all of the 93 U.S. Attorneys “serve at the pleasure of the President.” Is that explanation enough?

President Bush said on March 14, 2007, “U.S. attorneys and others serve at the pleasure of the President. Past administrations have removed U.S. attorneys. It is their right to do so.”

Karl Rove said on March 8, 2007, “Look, by law and by Constitution, these attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president and traditionally are given a four year term.”

Despite this acclimation of unfettered power, there must be some reason for a decision. Of course, “at the pleasure” does not require a reason to be justified. If the basis for a change in Department of Justice personnel is simply on a Presidential whim, then that is as scary, if not more so, than partisan politics.

Pleasure. The word sounds so benign – like margaritas with little umbrellas sipped on a white beach near the equator. But the definitions of the word “pleasure” are telling, even damning in this context.

The first definition of “pleasure” is “desire, inclination.” If those eight U.S. attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President and were asked to resign, then what prompted President Bush to desire such a change or to be so inclined?

Absent some kind of civil rights violation, the President can fire any appointee for any reason. He could complain that they aren’t blonde, they smoke, or they like Cocoa-Puffs – not Count Chocula. Of course, such reasons would be whims – child-like. It would be reminiscent of a pre-adolescent stomping around the room proclaiming, “I’m the boss of me!” Translated: “I’m the Decider.”

Obviously the reason for the replacement of the eight U.S. Attorneys was not that capricious. In fact, it is more likely that such decisions were highly calculated. The administration claims there is no evidence of impropriety in the replacement of the U.S. Attorneys. In the same breath they refuse full and open testimony on the matter by White House officials.


It’s difficult to discern whether there is evidence of impropriety if no evidence is presented at all. There are only the flat statements that the U.S. Attorneys “serve at the pleasure of the President.”
I understand your offense to the way I made my point, but my point was not to insult you. My point was to scream, "I am disgusted that fake talking point fools so many people!" And I apologize for the 30 second attention span comment but it was meant to reflect the 30 second spot commercials such talking points are designed to fit into.
 
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Seems to me that it's Congress that's abusing its privilige.

And does Congress have the right to subpoena anyone simply to satisfy their curiosity? If they want to know what Bush eats for breakfast, can they subpoena the White House cooks? Or is there such a thing as privacy? The hypocrisy here stinks. Leftists complain about Bush pushing for more powers to violate people's privacy to fight terrorism, and they complain. When Congress violates privacy to investigate completely legal, albeit perhaps unseemly, behavior, it's Bush that's blamed. If Congress were controlled by Republicans, and they were handing out Contempt of Congress charges for people refusing to cooperate with invasive terrorism investigations, I'm sure the Left would be screaming bloody murder.
Are you totally oblivious to this whole issue?

The Department of Justice is not the President's personal army of Democratic voter intimidation. It is not staffed by Karl Rove's minions out to purge voter registration roles of Democratic reservists who are fighting in Iraq because they weren't home to mail back certified letters sent to them specifically to then purge them from those voter registration roles. And the pleasure of the President does not include firing any federal attorney who dares to investigate top Republican Party members on corruption charges.

That is what Bush and his pals have been doing by installing party loyalists in the federal attorney jobs. And Congress had plenty of evidence this is what was going on with the attorney firings.
 

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