Exarchia - It has begun

This morning two refugee squats were evicted, using the same pretense of anti-drugs operations (again not finding even a single joint), and its inhabitants to be sent off to the camps. It should be noted that these squats weren't in Exarchia but in one of the surrounding neighbourhoods. There were 23 squats in Exarchia and 26 in the surrounding neighbourhoods, so that's leaving at this time still 19/23 in Exarchia and 24/26 in the surroundings. ETA: that's just the "illegal" squats, there are also a whole bunch of "legal" spaces in Exarchia.

What an odd move.
 
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caveman1917 said:
I'll note that you have only childish ad hominems left. And I'm not particularly interested in these poses of yours, I'm more interested in the real world, so I'll just refer you back to this.
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No, I've got a lot left. But you make it frustrating to engage in any substantial discussion when you play little word games. We're adults here, right? How about we discuss this like adults? Is that really so much to ask?

If you find it so important to discuss this, I provided you with the contact details of the squats, feel free to discuss your ideas with them and report back on your findings.

ETA: Here you find the rules for journalists for Notara 26 (one of the squats). I don't know about the other squats but it'll probably be similar.
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Yet again. I'm interested in discussing this with skeptics on this forum. What about that confounds you so? If I wanted to chat (in Greek I assume) with the squatters, I would have already done so.

Like most posters on most threads, I am interested in the discussion HERE.

Btw, the link you provide was for their Greek facebook, neither element of which I an conversant in, and the other for interview inquiries by journalists. That they only talk to when they feel like it. Thanks, helpful.
 
caveman1917 said:
This morning two refugee squats were evicted, using the same pretense of anti-drugs operations (again not finding even a single joint), and its inhabitants to be sent off to the camps. It should be noted that these squats weren't in Exarchia but in one of the surrounding neighbourhoods. There were 23 squats in Exarchia and 26 in the surrounding neighbourhoods, so that's leaving at this time still 19/23 in Exarchia and 24/26 in the surroundings. ETA: that's just the "illegal" squats, there are also a whole bunch of "legal" spaces in Exarchia.

What an odd move.
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Working from the perimeter inwards seems the logical strategic move. Can'rt really start from the center and fan out. What else should they have done, that would be less odd?
 
Thermal said:
No, I've got a lot left. But you make it frustrating to engage in any substantial discussion when you play little word games. We're adults here, right? How about we discuss this like adults? Is that really so much to ask?
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I have. You demanding that I have to accept your childish fantasies of abstract property rights, law, or the state in general doesn't change that. It's like you demanding that people on a skeptics forum have to accept the existence of Santa Claus and if they ignore that demand then you go whine about "adult conversations."

You then made up some hypothetical situation about your buddy's house and asked what position I would take, yet refused to give sufficient information for me to determine which option would be in my interest. But since I have no idea who your buddy is or what house you're even talking about, my answer will most likely be: I'm indifferent.

And that's your problem, your need to be governed by some authority. The situation is presented in which current authority falls away, so you frantically look for another authority to obey, in particular you start asking me about your buddy's house and what "should" happen. Yet why should I care about your buddy's house?

Yet again. I'm interested in discussing this with skeptics on this forum. What about that confounds you so? If I wanted to chat (in Greek I assume) with the squatters, I would have already done so.

Like most posters on most threads, I am interested in the discussion HERE.

Btw, the link you provide was for their Greek facebook, neither element of which I an conversant in, and the other for interview inquiries by journalists. That they only talk to when they feel like it. Thanks, helpful.
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They speak English. I gave you the rules for journalists because your request will probably be considered in the same way. Don't forget to tell them about how you "wrote the book" on what they're doing and if only they were "smart" they would listen to you, I'm sure it definitely won't get your request instantly moved to the bottom of the pile ;)

ETA: And I used to provide translations of Greek and French texts here, but apparently that's considered "spam" by the local petty little tyrants here.
 
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Thermal said:
Working from the perimeter inwards seems the logical strategic move. Can'rt really start from the center and fan out. What else should they have done, that would be less odd?
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No it isn't any logical strategic move. If their strategy was to work from the perimeter inwards then why did they start in the middle with the first 4 squats? Why have they occupied about 25% of Exarchia since 26 August, still having several squats inside the occupied area, if they were going to work inwards? And if this is their new strategy, then why have they changed strategy?

The squats they took weren't even defended, they were probably the lowest-hanging fruit they could find in the entirety of Athens, they could simply walk in and arrest everyone - which is effectively what they did. No I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) They can't "clean up" Exarchia so to save face they captured about 230 easy-picking migrants from somewhere else.

2) They are testing what the reaction will be. Essentially a "probing attack" before deciding whether to move forward with the "clean up" of Exarchia.
 
Yesterday was the yearly memorial service for Pavlos Fyssas who was murdered by Golden Dawn in 2013. The first part, during the day, consisted of a demonstration of about 8000 anti-fascists. The second part, during the day, consisted of smashing up banks and luxury shops and throwing Molotov cocktails on MAT forces.
 
God, somebody is tyring to make a bunch of demonstrators who don't seem to have much public support outside a few wannabe revolutionaries into the dawn of the glorious world wide People's revolution.....
 
caveman1917 said:
Yesterday was the yearly memorial service for Pavlos Fyssas who was murdered by Golden Dawn in 2013. The first part, during the day, consisted of a demonstration of about 8000 anti-fascists. The second part, during the day, consisted of smashing up banks and luxury shops and throwing Molotov cocktails on MAT forces.
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I googled this to find out more about the story. 8000 demonstrators sounds like an amazing show of force. But google turned up dead zero hits for a demonstration yesterday. Could you throw a brother a bone and give us a link?
 
caveman1917 said:
No it isn't any logical strategic move. If their strategy was to work from the perimeter inwards then why did they start in the middle with the first 4 squats?
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Grab the undefended first, and survey the area on the way in? Makes sense.

Why have they occupied about 25% of Exarchia since 26 August, still having several squats inside the occupied area, if they were going to work inwards? And if this is their new strategy, then why have they changed strategy?
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Strategies change all the time, no surprises there. I wondered why you thought it was an odd move. Didn't seem particularly odd.

The squats they took weren't even defended, they were probably the lowest-hanging fruit they could find in the entirety of Athens, they could simply walk in and arrest everyone - which is effectively what they did. No I think there are 2 possibilities:

1) They can't "clean up" Exarchia so to save face they captured about 230 easy-picking migrants from somewhere else.

2) They are testing what the reaction will be. Essentially a "probing attack" before deciding whether to move forward with the "clean up" of Exarchia.
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With you on #2. Makes the most sense to me
 
caveman1917 said:
I have. You demanding that I have to accept your childish fantasies of abstract property rights, law, or the state in general doesn't change that. It's like you demanding that people on a skeptics forum have to accept the existence of Santa Claus and if they ignore that demand then you go whine about "adult conversations."

You then made up some hypothetical situation about your buddy's house and asked what position I would take, yet refused to give sufficient information for me to determine which option would be in my interest. But since I have no idea who your buddy is or what house you're even talking about, my answer will most likely be: I'm indifferent.

And that's your problem, your need to be governed by some authority. The situation is presented in which current authority falls away, so you frantically look for another authority to obey, in particular you start asking me about your buddy's house and what "should" happen. Yet why should I care about your buddy's house?
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You pretty much summed it up when you said your philosophy is to do whatever happens to serve your interests at the time. Not much more to clear up, philosophy-wise.

They speak English. I gave you the rules for journalists because your request will probably be considered in the same way. Don't forget to tell them about how you "wrote the book" on what they're doing and if only they were "smart" they would listen to you, I'm sure it definitely won't get your request instantly moved to the bottom of the pile ;)

ETA: And I used to provide translations of Greek and French texts here, but apparently that's considered "spam" by the local petty little tyrants here.
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That highlighted...you've said that a couple times now. You do know you've completely screwed that up right? What I said was:

Thermal said:
...Cuz you don't hold a candle to me for childish BS. I wrote the book while you were getting potty trained.
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Reread that and reflect real hard. I said I wrote the book on childish BS. As in, you're not going to be more of an immature prick than me, Baba Louis. If you need your hand held for further explanation, imma be over here.
 
Thermal said:
I googled this to find out more about the story. 8000 demonstrators sounds like an amazing show of force. But google turned up dead zero hits for a demonstration yesterday. Could you throw a brother a bone and give us a link?
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Here you go.
 
The government removed a container with political literature from the central square of Exarchia. The container had been there for over 2 years, storing books, leaflets, etc which were used for political stands when there were events on the square.
696795d8540e65d331.jpg
 
Spirou Trikoupi 17 (one of the 4 squats in Exarchia which was evicted on 26 Aug) has been retaken (see also video here). We are back up to 20 squats inside Exarchia. And that while the neighbourhood is under active police occupation...impressive!

Exarchia stands! :thumbsup:
 
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Wow. What a thread.

My take: if things really are this bad in this anarchistic slum of a neighbourhood, and so bad on a national level that the police can't enforce Greek law without threat of terrorist attacks, it's high time they restore order. Maybe all the chaos today is worth the of tomorrow. Like when you stop treating a spoiled child with silk gloves and he or she throws a series of tantrums, but you hold out because you know that by the end of it they will respect you.

As for the edgy "property is theft" mentality of squatters occupying others' property, the stolen tomato can and sold car metaphor is very fitting answer.

~ eta ~
caveman1917 said:
But then of course, it is also the rationale behind some of the squats being free clinics (nobody goes without free healthcare in Exarchia, not even refugees who are denied access to healthcare by the State) and some of them being community kitchens (nobody goes hungry in Exarchia, not even refugees), etc. If I were in Exarchia it would be in my interest to get free healthcare if needed, and it's also in the interest of the other people there, so we come together and make it happen.
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Oh, how noble of them. Warms my heart.

Except, of course, they could've done those things just fine anywhere else, without taking someone else's property and resorting to a life of lawlessness. Volunteer at a clinic or soup kitchen, volunteer for refugees, donate to the Red Cross.
 
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caveman1917 said:
The government removed a container with political literature from the central square of Exarchia. The container had been there for over 2 years, storing books, leaflets, etc which were used for political stands when there were events on the square.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/696795d8540e65d331.jpg[/qimg]
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Pity. Maybe the grafitti-covered container in the middle of the street would have been allowed to remain if someone just put it on their own property :rolleyes: .
 
Thermal said:
Yeah, it was all Greek to me, too
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:)

I ran it past MrsB who used it as a translation exercise. I then put it through google translate which did a pretty good job, afaics. But I'm trying not to get sucked into these utterly futile threads, but mostly failing.
 
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