Examples of Skeptics Cold Reading?

[HenDralux]

(nor is the city of SLO known for its indigenous snake population ).

May I ask you though Clancie, how likely is it that you may see a snake in a road-trip in California? How often do you see them?

I don't know, I'm English, never been there.

 

[Interesting Ian]

We must be thinking of a different show then.

What I saw was laughable. They used a screen for one of the mediums. He got it totally and utterly wrong, then used the old trick of 'oh, must be picking up a dead person related to someone in the audience'.

How is that possible? Has the spirit suddenly forgot who he/she is related to?

No, it was the same programme. It seems to me that skeptics have a very poor understanding of probability. That is if they are alleging cold reading rather than hot reading.

 

[CFLarsen]

No, I'm not satisfied by your use of incorrect terms, your insults, your non apology for it, and your other amusing tactics.

Use of incorrect terms? I corrected myself. It wasn't an experiment, it was a study. What more do you want?

It isn't an insult if it is true.

WTF does HenDralux have to do with it??

My fault. It was UnTrickaBLe. (See? Again, I admit errors! Try it sometime...)

Are you going to provide UnTrickaBLe with the transcripts you have?

 

[Clancie]

I saw Ian Rowland cold read at Cal Tech and wasn't impressed. Apparently, even his own assessment of his cold reading demo at TAM2 wasn't very positive.

Personally, I'm still waiting to see an admitted cold reader make a convincing unedited "mediumship" demonstration, something comparable to some of the readings that I've had personally.

 

[HenDralux]

No, it was the same programme. It seems to me that skeptics have a very poor understanding of probability. That is if they are alleging cold reading rather than hot reading.

I'm not alleging anything or speaking about probability factors.

I was a viewer of the show..and that medium stank. Simple as that. Whether he was fake or not.

Randi may have 'hot-read', but he got the info correct.

The medium didn't. Completely failed.

 

[Clancie]

Posted by HenDralux

May I ask you though Clancie, how likely is it that you may see a snake in a road-trip in California? How often do you see them?

I don't know, I'm English, never been there.

Well, come visit some time! Its a nice state.

To be honest, I've lived in Ca. all my life and I've never seen a snake on a road trip. And seeing one while driving to SLO would, in my opinion, be highly unlikely and unusual.

Posted by HenDralux

Randi may have 'hot-read', but he got the info correct.

Well, he'd be really bad to miss it when hot reading! (Which, btw, he admitted doing).

 

[HenDralux]

seeing one while driving to SLO would, in my opinion, be highly unlikely and unusual.


edited to add: Of course Randi got the information right by hot reading.

ookey dokes. Fair enough.

 

[HenDralux]

erm..apologies again. Why can't I seem to get this quoting malarkey right...

My earlier post was meant for Clancie and her snake answer.

 

[HenDralux]

Well, he'd be really bad to miss it when hot reading! (Which, btw, he admitted doing).

lol, yes, but that wasn't quite my point.

The total failure of the alleged cold reading medium followed seemingly usual protocol.

A screen was adopted, and upon total failure, he blamed it on the possibility of another spirit connected to the rest of the audience.

My question is, why couldn't the spirit say 'hey, pal....btw, the bloke behind the screen? Never seen him in m life'

But what 'seems' to happen is..they wave some kinda mystic symbol around which is supposed to mean 'see that bloke behind the screen? Well I may or may not know him..I may or may not have a name that begins with T...and I *think* I died of a heart attack'.

It just seems a shame that spirits lose all their faculties in the afterlife.

Like your snake for example...who was showing her a snake?

 

[HenDralux]

Is the afterlife one eternal, infinite game of charades?

Man, I hope not, I hate that game.

 

[Interesting Ian]

Well, yes, but there was no way to hot read this that I can see (i.e. no "researchable connection" between me and the son...much less the nickname, which was one that only he and his father used).

I figure people will attribute it to "lucky guess" or me just "making it fit". However, neither of those explanations work for me (nor is the city of SLO known for its indigenous snake population ).

Yes, I agree that the snake connection is pretty unlikely. Of course I don't know how many incorrect connections the medium got. But from reading transcripts of readings, although some of them certainly some seem cold reading, with a fair few of them this is just too implausible. Actually, from reading your comments in other threads I'm pretty much in precise agreement with you.

Edit to add: Although I agree that it is likely that some anomalous cognition is going on here, this doesn't mean to say that people are actually contacting the dead. Maybe they are, really difficult to say. But even if it's just plain old esp, it is my opinion that the very existence of ESP is highly suggestive of the survival hypothesis. I won't bother arguing that point at the moment though

 

[Kerberos]

He actually played 11 opponents, I think. The trick was he simply remembered each player's moves, and duplicated them on other tables. In effect, the grandmasters were playing each other.

They revealed the solution on the show.

OK, I did consider that possibility since I heard of it before, but Ian said that he managed to win most of the games, and you can't really be sure to win more than half your games that way. Incidentially if he played against 11 opponents, wouldn't he have to play against one of them himself?

 

[Clancie]

Posted by HenDralux

A screen was adopted, and upon total failure, he blamed it on the possibility of another spirit connected to the rest of the audience.

Yes, that's one reason I don't find group readings usually as "evidential" when information -does- seemingly come through, (unless. it is clearly well-focused on a particular person to begin with).

It just seems a shame that spirits lose all their faculties in the afterlife.

Well, if its true, I don't find it that incredible that a medium could get "information" from feeling things, seeing things, and hearing things (though, imo, complete sentences seems a bit much to expect--I know we disagree.)

Like your snake for example...who was showing her a snake.

Supposedly, the deceased. (And she -did- get his name, first try, no hot reading. But, again, non-believers would say, "Its a common name"--which it is. Still...there's just so much one can chalk up to "lucky guess" and "coincidence" before thinking, "There might be something to it.").

 

[CFLarsen]

I saw Ian Rowland cold read at Cal Tech and wasn't impressed. Apparently, even his own assessment of his cold reading demo at TAM2 wasn't very positive.

Yes, and the reason? Both audiences knew he was cold reading. And, as you know, sitters have to believe the medium/cold reader is able to talk to the dead.

Personally, I'm still waiting to see an admitted cold reader make a convincing unedited "mediumship" demonstration, something comparable to some of the readings that I've had personally.

First, you have seen several impressive cold reading examples.

Second, you have not been able to tell the difference.

Third, you are now moving the goal posts. Before, you wanted to see a cold reader comparable to John Edward. Now, it has to be one of the many mediums you have had readings with - thereby making it impossible for us to compare as well, since you won't share your readings with us.

To be honest, I've lived in Ca. all my life and I've never seen a snake on a road trip. And seeing one while driving to SLO would, in my opinion, be highly unlikely and unusual.

Really? I find that rather odd:

There are 33 species of snakes in California. Species commonly found in the wild lands of northern California include gopher snakes, racers, California kingsnakes, garter snakes, and the northern Pacific rattlesnake.
Source

Of the 33 snake species in California, 6 are poisonous--all of them rattlesnakes. 10 to 15 deaths are reported each year from venomous snake bites.
Source

Lampropeltis getula californiae - California Kingsnake, from San Obispo

 

[Interesting Ian]

Hmmm . .extremely interesting Clancie! Clearly it is highly unreasonable that the medium just got this by chance. The only "normal" possibility here would be hot reading.
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Ian, I don't know you, so I don't know if you're being sarcastic.

Huh?? No why should I be? I'm the resident "woo" anyway

I didn't want to comment on Clancie's example because she stated she didn't wish to debate it.

But, are you serious about the quoted statement?

Well yes. I haven't discounted hot reading, so what are you disagreeing with me about? You must be saying it is possible it was just a lucky guess. Certainly it is possible, but just very unlikely.

I could give you some incredibly simple explanations for that particular one.

Well, I doubt that, but you can try me

 

[Interesting Ian]

May I ask you though Clancie, how likely is it that you may see a snake in a road-trip in California? How often do you see them?

I don't know, I'm English, never been there.

Ummmm . . .pretty desperate stuff!

 

[Interesting Ian]

I'm not alleging anything or speaking about probability factors.

I was a viewer of the show..and that medium stank. Simple as that. Whether he was fake or not.

Randi may have 'hot-read', but he got the info correct.

The medium didn't. Completely failed.

Well, I can't remember enough details now. I remember that on the whole there were some readings which I did not believe could be produced by cold reading. But can't remember the details, so I guess there's little point in discussing it. We need a transcript in front of us so we can both comment on it

 

[Clancie]

The Boy Paj

The guy on Penn & Teller also got great reactions from his audience.

If you mean Mark Edward...he's a skeptic in general, but a believer that there's something unexplainable at work in his psychic readings. He describes himself as "skeptic and believer".

 

[CFLarsen]

For example I was just watching Derren Brown last night. Even though he's not very good at chess, he simultaneously played 5 good chess players at once, a couple of grandmasters amongst them, and he managed to beat most of them. They all seemed to be extremely impressed. But I twigged on how he did it.

My sheer raw intelligence you see

Interesting how wrong you can remember, even though it happened last night:

This is highlighted by another stunt filmed for the new series, where Derren invites a group of nine world-class chess professionals, comprised of Grandmasters and International Masters to a studio, decorated as a massive chess board. Derren then plays them all simultaneously, with the objective of beating or drawing with the majority of them - which he achieves. Derren can play chess, but by his own admission, he's not much good at it. Yet there he is, beating nine top-notch players. But there is an explanation and Derren reveals to camera how he did it'.
Source

Derren Brown set up a simul involving 9 matches against some quality opposition made up of IMs and GMs (some rather handy UK players like Chris Ward, Julian Hodgson, Graham Lee). He ended up with 4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws by essentially playing 4 of them off against another 4 without them realising and then beating the weakest player there (President of the Chess Society at King's College, London or some such blokey, am not sure how he beat him to be honest).
Source

4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws.

Not "most of them". And he told how it was done. So much for your "sheer raw intelligence", Ian....

 

[Interesting Ian]

Well, come visit some time! Its a nice state.

To be honest, I've lived in Ca. all my life and I've never seen a snake on a road trip. And seeing one while driving to SLO would, in my opinion, be highly unlikely and unusual.

I've never seen a snake in my life. Nor even a cockroach as far as I'm aware! Thank God!! LOL

Plenty of spiders though although only titchy ones in the north east of England. Southerners get much bigger spiders (southern England that is LOL)