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Evolution answers

We need to go back to post #743, to form a judgement if justintime was making a point or not, because you only cut out a part of what he said, which i dont think is fair, when talking about points being made...imo.

The problem is that justintime is erroniously comparing human invasions of other countries to migration of species into new environments. The comparison fails for numerous reasons, which the subsequent discussion of invasive species highlights. justintime's rant also has very clear racist undertones, because I guess calling all scientists frauds and saying we should all (or actually, more than all of us) should be thrown in jail wasn't provocative enough.

Furthermore, some people on this message board seem to think that one must quote the entire post to demonstrate context, and that doing so is sufficient to demonstrate understanding of both the post and the context. This is nonsense. I've seen numerous posters quote long posts and not even read them--obviously not, because the questions they answer are answered in the post they quote. There is no discussion style where word-for-word repitition of someone else's statements is required; it bogs down the conversation, makes the posts unnecessarily long, does nothing to demonstrate comprehension, interferes with comprehensibility...I could go on, but you get the point.

It was sufficient, for the points being made, to demonstrate that justintime was discussing human invasions. Quoting the full post was unnecessary for that. Once that point was established, that point could be fully addressed, without quoting the rest of hte statement.
 
We need to go back to post #743, to form a judgement if justintime was making a point or not, because you only cut out a part of what he said, which i dont think is fair, when talking about points being made...imo.
I found that post and read his answer in regard to someone elses comment about Mongols, and cant see really what the problem is, actually.

Thank you for pointing out the deliberate attempts to mislead by taking my quotes out of context. It is only when readers exercise their rights and demand a higher standard of integrity will we see a reduction is intellectual dishonesty.

Many of my ideas are left to blush unseen and waste it sweetness in this desert of empty space. (adaptation of Thomas Gray)
 
justintime said:
Thank you for pointing out the deliberate attempts to mislead by taking my quotes out of context.
Oh, come on! YOU of all people don't get to complain about that--not after all the work you did to mislead people about MY quotes. This is like a burgler stubbing his toe and suing the home owner!

Many of my ideas are left to blush unseen and waste it sweetness in this desert of empty space. (adaptation of Thomas Gray)
I pointed out the context. Unfortunately for you, the context was a deliberate attempt at obfuscation and a misrepresentation of the theory of evolution. Your ideas didn't "blush unseen", they withered under the scoarching light of reality.
 
Many of my ideas are left to blush unseen and waste it sweetness in this desert of empty space. (adaptation of Thomas Gray)

They should blush. Stubborn refusal to read source/reference material; inability to comprehend material you reference; inability to comprehend simple statistics and probabilities; inability to comprehend basis scientific concepts; stubborn refusal to recognize mathmatical errors; stubborn refusal to admit factual errors . . . page 78.
 
Thank you for pointing out the deliberate attempts to mislead by taking my quotes out of context.[...]

JiT, this is a rhetorical question, and probably a waste of my time: Can you point to any such claimed deliberate attempts? Nonsense and context are not synonyms - they just sound a bit similar.

IAMME, please pay attention.
 
Thank you for pointing out the deliberate attempts to mislead by taking my quotes out of context. It is only when readers exercise their rights and demand a higher standard of integrity will we see a reduction is intellectual dishonesty.

Many of my ideas are left to blush unseen and waste it sweetness in this desert of empty space. (adaptation of Thomas Gray)

If it were not so poisonously sad, seeing you type this absurdity would be hilarious.

And Dinwar did, scrupulously, follow convention to indicate that material had, in fact, been left out; and did, scrupulously, interpret the words in context.

Neither of which you have demonstrated elementary ability, or willingness, to do.
 
It is called evolution, justintime. This is not the "Natual Selection answers" thread :D.
Natural selection is half of one of the mechanisms behind the fact of evolution.

You are downplaying Natural Selection. It is the cornerstone of Darwin's theory and the mechanism for descent with modification.

Darwin and Natural Selection
The second idea proposed by On the Origin of Species is that natural selection is the mechanism for descent with modification
In other words, natural selection is an important process by which adaptation, and hence, evolution takes place within a population of organisms
Evolution through natural selection is a cornerstone of modern biology Darwin's Theory of Evolution
This process takes place over many generations, and is the foundation of Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection This has been termed natural selection
In 1859, Charles Darwin set out his theory of evolution by natural selection as an explanation for adaptation and speciation
 
justintime said:
You are downplaying Natural Selection. It is the cornerstone of Darwin's theory and the mechanism for descent with modification.
Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago. The modern theory of evolution is far more complex than "Natural Selection". And even Darwin admitted that natural selection wasn't the only mechanism--in his most famous work he discussed other selection methods, including artificial selection and sexual selection. We now know of kin selection and the power of random events (meaning events that are not influenced by, but which exert an influence on, fitness space).

Again, science isn't religion. Merely saying "Darwin said it!" is insufficient when it comes to demonstrating that modern researchers accept some idea.

Plus, unfortunately some scientists are poor at conveying scientific ideas. Many simplify concepts for the general audience, and some oversimplify things. An actual discussion of selection and the various types of selection is enormously complicated; so some simplify it by focusing on natural selection exclusively. They're wrong. It's unfortunate, but understandable, particularly when dealing with people who think that 2 out of every 1 paper published can be frauds or other such ignorant nonsense.

Also, again, I find it very curious that you're willing to take the word of random websites that you refuse to even link to as divine truth not to be questioned, but when an actual researcher in the field tells you something you blow it off as irrelevant.
 
Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago. The modern theory of evolution is far more complex than "Natural Selection". And even Darwin admitted that natural selection wasn't the only mechanism--in his most famous work he discussed other selection methods, including artificial selection and sexual selection. We now know of kin selection and the power of random events (meaning events that are not influenced by, but which exert an influence on, fitness space).

Again, science isn't religion. Merely saying "Darwin said it!" is insufficient when it comes to demonstrating that modern researchers accept some idea.

Plus, unfortunately some scientists are poor at conveying scientific ideas. Many simplify concepts for the general audience, and some oversimplify things. An actual discussion of selection and the various types of selection is enormously complicated; so some simplify it by focusing on natural selection exclusively. They're wrong. It's unfortunate, but understandable, particularly when dealing with people who think that 2 out of every 1 paper published can be frauds or other such ignorant nonsense.

Also, again, I find it very curious that you're willing to take the word of random websites that you refuse to even link to as divine truth not to be questioned, but when an actual researcher in the field tells you something you blow it off as irrelevant.


In my Unified Theory of Evolution I pointed to the fact Darwin's theory was over simplified because Darwin was not privy to Mendel's genetics, DNA sequencing, adequate fossil samples and modern investigative technology. But modern evolutionists have little excuse for continuing his legacy of flawed theories for fear it will create even more gaps in their own theories.

The link to my post on Darwin's Natural Selection.

"Darwin and Natural Selection
The second idea proposed by On the Origin of Species is that natural selection is the mechanism for descent with modification
In other words, natural selection is an important process by which adaptation, and hence, evolution takes place within a population of organisms
Evolution through natural selection is a cornerstone of modern biology
Darwin's Theory of Evolution
This process takes place over many generations, and is the foundation of Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection
This has been termed natural selection
In 1859, Charles Darwin set out his theory of evolution by natural selection as an explanation for adaptation and speciation

https://www.boundless.com/biology/definition/natural-selection/
 
How much knowledge have we gained since 1859? Just a rough guess mind you, because frankly, your figurin' doesn't inspire much confidence.

If according to Dinwar "Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago." there is very little left of evolution to consider because it removes the cornerstone in Darwin's evolution theory the theory of Natural Selection. We are then left with Mendel's genetics or heredity and that only offers an explanation for variations within a species. But you have Dinwar to quote and I am sure he can defend his position. Starting here..........

Dinwar wrote: Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago. Check link below.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9787380&postcount=788
 
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You are downplaying Natural Selection. It is the cornerstone of Darwin's theory and the mechanism for descent with modification.

It's the part of his theory that made it superior to competing theories.

Understanding natural selection is necessary but not sufficient to understand evolution.
 
If according to Dinwar "Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago." there is very little left of evolution to consider because it removes the cornerstone in Darwin's evolution theory the theory of Natural Selection.

Nothing was removed. Darwin's ideas have been expanded on so much that it's meaningless to call it "Darwinism" any more.
 
In my Unified Theory of Evolution I pointed to the fact Darwin's theory was over simplified because Darwin was not privy to Mendel's genetics, DNA sequencing, adequate fossil samples and modern investigative technology. But modern evolutionists have little excuse for continuing his legacy of flawed theories for fear it will create even more gaps in their own theories.
[irrelevant nonsense snipped]

Justin, do you know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is?
 
justintime said:
In my Unified Theory of Evolution...
I don't care. Your "theory" has never been tested, never been verified, never even been published. It's irrelevant to this conversation.

But modern evolutionists have little excuse for continuing his legacy of flawed theories for fear it will create even more gaps in their own theories.
Modern researchers DON'T continue his flawed ideas. We continue to use the ones he had that were accurate, and adapt them as the data demands. Modern evolutoinary theory is very different from what Darwin proposed.

If according to Dinwar "Darwinism was abandoned about a century ago." there is very little left of evolution to consider because it removes the cornerstone in Darwin's evolution theory the theory of Natural Selection.
The "then" statement does not follow from the "if" statement. Darwinism refers to a specific scientific theory. It was replaced by newer theories, which took into account newer data. Natural selection has never been discarded as A mechanism for evolution; however, it is no longer considered THE ONLY, or even THE PRIMARY mechanism. Modern research frequently starts with the question "Is there a selection pressure?" and then, if there is, seeks to define which. Sometimes it's natural selection, sometimes sexual selection, and sometimes the change is random.

We are then left with Mendel's genetics or heredity and that only offers an explanation for variations within a species.
We also have de Vrise' primrose experiments, which clearly show how new species can arise.

But you have Dinwar to quote and I am sure he can defend his position.
Considering how often you flat-out lie about what I say, it's not that hard.
 
@Justintime,
Exactly how does your Unified Theory of Evolution vary from modern evolutionary synthesis (MES)?
All this talk about Darwin is meaningless. It would be similar to trying to sell a "new" plane that outperformed the Wright Bros design. Meaningless. A New plane needs to outperform modern planes, not antique ones.

In the same way your Unified Theory of Evolution doesn't need to outperform Darwinism, it needs to outperform MES. That's a pretty tall order for one guy. But hey. You said it. Let's see it explain things better, make better predictions, be more useful in medicine, agriculture, cytology, ecology, immunology, biochemistry, paleontology.... and on and on and on.

Do you have any idea the vast body of work you would have to overthrow if your Unified Theory of Evolution was significantly different than MES? So please. Tell me how it differs, then let's get to work falsifying it, instead of bad mouthing a man long dead.
 
In my Unified Theory of Evolution I pointed to the fact Darwin's theory was over simplified because Darwin was not privy to Mendel's genetics, DNA sequencing, adequate fossil samples and modern investigative technology.

Can you provide us with a list of accurate predictions this theory has made?

Or at least, a list of predictions.
 
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Justin, do you know what the Dunning-Kruger effect is?
I never made it a point of interest to learn what afflicts other people for fear it might bias my attitude towards them.
That'd be a "no", then...
Kind of an interesting "no," though, in view of Dunning and Kruger's conclusion:
The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others.

I think you guys (Dinwar, JayUtah, etc) are making the error of giving Justin too much of the benefit of the doubt (that he can understand, and sensibly respond to, your points); and Justin's error is in giving himself all the benefit of having no doubt at all.
 

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