Evolution and Creation an Honest Question

skepticdoc said:
So where is the next TB antibiotic? Trade secret? SSSure..!

What will be the next anti-viral effective against H5N1? methinks nobody knows!
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I'm sorry but I have to say it. You are so dense!

Re-read my post. If you want to comment on the genetics as the basis of evolutionary theory and on the predictive value of genetic research please do.

The comment as you put it is made of straw.

I can assure you the next TB antibiotic will more likely come from genetic research than the older method of trial and error. Right now no drug company or government is putting any money into the research. Perhaps the Gates Foundation will.

And both Tamiflu and Relenza are currently effective against all but a single case of H5N1. Those drugs are also the result of genetic science. And I might mention, it is genetic research that identified the one drug resistant strain and the fact that genetic pattern was an isolated case and the fact the mutation which led to the drug resistance was not a common mutation.
 
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hammegk said:
How confident are you that at a high "easiest-defined" phenptype level - say, chihuahuas, great danes, wolves, foxes, etc - the genetics would cause you to state they are different species.
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Hammy, there are twenty seven species, across nine genera, referred to by the name "fox". To which of these are you referring?
 
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It's useless.

Hammy's argument is similar to saying that a book cannot be classified into a genre, because depending on how you define your filing system it could be in a different category.

His entire purpose seems to be pointing to the "in-betweens" to claim that nothing can show a relationship between different categories.

Nevermind that the nebulous nature of many distinctions fits precisely into evolutionary theory and modern genetics. Nevermind that the only thing reflected in reality is the genetic relationship (species is just a handy label we place on group sof organisms that are "close enough"), nevermind that the majority of life on Earth shares a signifigant percentage of the same genes, and use the same amino acids as building blocks (with a few exceptions), nevermind that every chemical life process on Earth shares the same char, when it works just as well either way.

Dogs are all dogs, thus evolution is refuted.

In any case...
 

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skepticdoc said:
What is the predictive value of the Concept of Evolution?

I view it as the most rational explanation for the diversity of lifeforms, but I fail to grasp any practical value, since it cannot predict which will be the next antibiotic ( for example ) that will help treat antibiotic resistant TB.
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actually, a lot of cures and treatments for diseases are based on knowledge of evolutionary theory and genetics.

My sister is part of a joint effort between Manchester and Liverpool universities to cure sleeping sickness in cattle. A lot of their work hinges on evolutionary theory.
 
Take it easy S'girl, no need to lose your temper, and start calling names.

(makes you look bad!!, you lose credibility, I still hold you in high professional regard)
 
skepticdoc said:
Take it easy S'girl, no need to lose your temper, and start calling names.

(makes you look bad!!, you lose credibility, I still hold you in high professional regard)
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It's not temper at all s'doc. It's the loss of words to respond to your bizarre posts. It was my honest assessment of you based on your posts.
 
Lamuella said:
actually, a lot of cures and treatments for diseases are based on knowledge of evolutionary theory and genetics.

My sister is part of a joint effort between Manchester and Liverpool universities to cure sleeping sickness in cattle. A lot of their work hinges on evolutionary theory.
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how?
 
Too bad you can't and should not mess with the human genome like they are trying to do with cattle.

Human applications? ( none?)
 
skepticdoc said:
Too bad you can't and should not mess with the human genome like they are trying to do with cattle.

Human applications? ( none?)
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Human applications: with the ability to use cattle for milk and pulling carts in more parts of Africa, you solve several of the problems that cause hunger in the tsetse belt of Africa, meaning you get more and happier humans.

does that count?
 
Treatment Interuption in HIV patients comes directly from evolutionary theory.

We have drugs that can wipe out HIV's. Some HIV strains develop resistance to drug. The plan goes like this. Use drug to wipe out most of wildtype HIV leaving resistant HIV. Stop treatment allowing wildtype to grow back, outcompeting resistant form. Resume treatment wiping out remaining wildtype. Textbook Darwinism.

Promising results so far.
 
cbish said:
Treatment Interuption in HIV patients comes directly from evolutionary theory.

We have drugs that can wipe out HIV's. Some HIV strains develop resistance to drug. The plan goes like this. Use drug to wipe out most of wildtype HIV leaving resistant HIV. Stop treatment allowing wildtype to grow back, outcompeting resistant form. Resume treatment wiping out remaining wildtype. Textbook Darwinism.

Promising results so far.
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I think it may be hopeless trying to get through to s'doc. These are excellent examples as were mine as were Lamuella's. Until s'doc gets the concept that genetic theory and evolutionary theory are one in the same he may never understand what we are talking about.
 
Lamuella said:
actually, a lot of cures and treatments for diseases are based on knowledge of evolutionary theory and genetics.

My sister is part of a joint effort between Manchester and Liverpool universities to cure sleeping sickness in cattle. A lot of their work hinges on evolutionary theory.
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In the completely useless sense that Darwin's "descent with modification" predicts regarding offspring. That being change happens (unless it doesn't) and it's neutral, increases chance of survivability, or decreases it.

Or do you suggest some phylogenetic miracles are being predicted?
 
Lamuella said:
actually, a lot of cures and treatments for diseases are based on knowledge of evolutionary theory and genetics.
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Antibiotic resistance and the Flu virus are perfect examples of evolution. Genetic mutation leads to variation in traits (resistance) that can be selected for in a population (antibiotic resistance/new Flu strains).

Knowledge of evolutionary processes is vital for understanding the cause, therefore, treatment of disease. It is also vital for understanding the cause and treatment of diseases in the future.

An example of this is the Bird Flu. Why all the hub-bub? Currently, Bird Flu is not transmissable human/human because it's a deep lung infection that can't get out in a cough. However, it's only two mutations away from being an upper respiratory infection which is transmissable. They even know what the mutation has to be. Say goodbye to your free range chicken. All thanks to our knowledge of evolution.

To quote Kenneth Miller, " Doctor's should know more about Darwin than they do Pasteur!"
 
cbish said:
Treatment Interuption in HIV patients comes directly from evolutionary theory.

We have drugs that can wipe out HIV's. Some HIV strains develop resistance to drug. The plan goes like this. Use drug to wipe out most of wildtype HIV leaving resistant HIV. Stop treatment allowing wildtype to grow back, outcompeting resistant form. Resume treatment wiping out remaining wildtype. Textbook Darwinism.

Promising results so far.
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Wouldn't the drug resistant strain predominate anyhow?

Explain to me the mechanism by which the wildtype predominates and overpowers the drug resistant one?

I thought darwinism is the survival of the fittest, then the survivors are able to procreate and thus their progeny is more qualified to survive in the envronment. Classic darwinism explains why the drug resistant virus replicates and eventually kills the subject; looks like you are distorting darwinism to fit your credo/dogma.
 
Alot of the people here, in my opinion, need to do less talking and more thinking.

skepticdoc, cbish's argument is presuming that the drug resistant mutation also incurrs other effects that are somehow detrimental to the organism. Basically identical to the whole sickle cell thing.
 
skepticdoc said:
Wouldn't the drug resistant strain predominate anyhow?

Explain to me the mechanism by which the wildtype predominates and overpowers the drug resistant one?

I thought darwinism is the survival of the fittest, then the survivors are able to procreate and thus their progeny is more qualified to survive in the envronment. Classic darwinism explains why the drug resistant virus replicates and eventually kills the subject; looks like you are distorting darwinism to fit your credo/dogma.
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That's a great question! And it's a question that I have. Apparently, the wildtype can outcompete the resistant form a'natural. How and why is not known,NOW. However, that's irrelevent to the treatment. The fact that they do and we understand that they do and we understand how evolution works gives us a practical application of evolutionary biology that has been demanded by you!
 
cbish said:
That's a great question! And it's a question that I have. Apparently, the wildtype can outcompete the resistant form a'natural. How and why is not known,NOW. However, that's irrelevent to the treatment. The fact that they do and we understand that they do and we understand how evolution works gives us a practical application of evolutionary biology that has been demanded by you!
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On which medical journal was this published?
 
skepticdoc said:
On which medical journal was this published?
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S'doc, this has been known for years. The idea of allowing a relapse and retreating is not a new concept but experimental application is recent. The fact wild HIV returns if drug resistant strains predominated and anti-virals are stopped was seen at least 5-10 years ago.

I'll edit in some sources just for you.
 
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