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Etch-a-Sketch

Every candidate panders towards the base of his party for the primaries and then pivots quickly to the center for the general election (and usually for his initial term). Remember Obama promising the Democrats he'd be out of Iraq and Guantanamo Bay inside a year? Etch-a-Sketch.

ETA: That said, it was foolish for Romney's aide (not Romney himself) to say that. Richard Nixon's dictum about running to the center was about after securing the nomination.
 
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RandFan said:
Define "logic"? A conservative could win over liberals, independents and moderates in the general election but somehow they can't seem to win over conservatives in the primaries. :confused:

Can someone explain that to me?
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This is an excellent question and one I've wondered about myself when I hear the argument that a "true conservative" should be chosen to run.
 
Brainster said:
Every candidate panders towards the base of his party for the primaries and then pivots quickly to the center for the general election (and usually for his initial term). Remember Obama promising the Democrats he'd be out of Iraq and Guantanamo Bay inside a year? Etch-a-Sketch.

ETA: That said, it was foolish for Romney's aide (not Romney himself) to say that. Richard Nixon's dictum about running to the center was about after securing the nomination.
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Obama got us out of Iraq and signed an executive order closing Gitmo. He was then blocked by congress, but that's not the same as lying about his intentions.

Romney is just completely dishonest about his policies and has taken at least two positions on everything. It's hard to defend.
 
I'm certainly no Romney fan, but I find it somewhat ironic that Newt wants to draw attention to flip-flopping on big issues depending on the political climate (ahem). I also find it disingenuous of him to portray Romney as the "establishment" as if Newt himself had no history in Washington D.C.
 
Brainster said:
ETA: That said, it was foolish for Romney's aide (not Romney himself) to say that. Richard Nixon's dictum about running to the center was about after securing the nomination.
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I'm glad someone mentioned this. It was indeed Richard Nixon who famously advised Republicans that they should run as far to the right in the primaries as they could, and as close to the center in the general elections as they could.

Nixon's unstated assumption was that the electorate has a short memory or just isn't very smart (or both). Besides, first things first: appease the low-brows in your own party first, then after you have the nomination, go after the smarter folks in the middle. After all, what are the low-brows going to do, vote for the other guy??

The phenomenon pre-dates Nixon, of course. Barry Goldwater, who was for many years "Mr. Conservative," lamented that he had to seem as dim and as reactionary as many of those whose votes he was trying to court. Lyndon Johnson, Goldwater's 1964 presidential opponent, likewise bemoaned that he had to appear to take several backward stands in order to appease some knuckle-dragging Texan voters.

LBJ's experience is instructive because some of the things he said in order to achieve office did not get any national attention and got damn little local attention. But that has changed. Today, even statements made in some backwater town can make national news, and the prevalence of video means that comments made in the candidate's own voice can come back to haunt the candidate.
 
While the aide's statements were technically correct, and I am sure the other candidates know it, it is not something one says in public.
 
Brown said:
<snip>

Nixon's unstated assumption was that the electorate has a short memory or just isn't very smart (or both). Besides, first things first: appease the low-brows in your own party first, then after you have the nomination, go after the smarter folks in the middle. After all, what are the low-brows going to do, vote for the other guy??

The phenomenon pre-dates Nixon, of course. Barry Goldwater, who was for many years "Mr. Conservative," lamented that he had to seem as dim and as reactionary as many of those whose votes he was trying to court. Lyndon Johnson, Goldwater's 1964 presidential opponent, likewise bemoaned that he had to appear to take several backward stands in order to appease some knuckle-dragging Texan voters.

<snip>
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This is intriguing to me. Do you happen to have any specific quotes from these candidates? My Google Fu wasn't able to find them.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
While the aide's statements were technically correct, and I am sure the other candidates know it, it is not something one says in public.
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Seems like he was talking about shaking up the campaign, not Romney's beliefs. But he made the cardinal sin of campaigning: he tried to tell the truth. Nobody wants to hear that.
 
Aoidoi said:
Seems like he was talking about shaking up the campaign, not Romney's beliefs. But he made the cardinal sin of campaigning: he tried to tell the truth. Nobody wants to hear that.
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He was specifically asked if taking so many far right positions would hurt him in the general, so his response was that in the fall, he could just shake up the etch-a-sketch and take all new positions.

I don't know how much clearer his point could be.
 
Brown said:
Nixon's unstated assumption was that the electorate has a short memory or just isn't very smart (or both).
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It's probably included in not very smart, but I would say that this approach counts on the fact that the number of voters who pay attention to these kinds of statements (everyone here) is much less significant than the number of voters who are susceptible to the repackaging of a candidate.
 
Jarlaxle said:
Romney is a wishy-washy moderate with no core beliefs. The GOP shgould have learned from the last three times (1992, 1996, 2008) they nominated one of those...and got stomped! At this point, I think I'm writing in Mortimer Snerd. :(
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Say no more, Monty, I'm way ahead of you!

Michael
 

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Unabogie said:
He was specifically asked if taking so many far right positions would hurt him in the general, so his response was that in the fall, he could just shake up the etch-a-sketch and take all new positions.

I don't know how much clearer his point could be.
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Well, I view campaign positions as different from actual candidate beliefs, but that's probably just my cynicism kicking in. I mean, we could assume that all candidates change their beliefs when getting into office, or that they lie on the campaign trail, or both... but not many seem to actually do what they said.
 
Aoidoi said:
Well, I view campaign positions as different from actual candidate beliefs, but that's probably just my cynicism kicking in. I mean, we could assume that all candidates change their beliefs when getting into office, or that they lie on the campaign trail, or both... but not many seem to actually do what they said.
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I agree with you but I don't think that is responsive to the question at hand.

  • Romney's critics say he is not conservative.
  • Romney vociferously asserts that he is.
  • A member of Romney's campaign staff is asked if Romney's hard right positions will hurt him.
  • The staff member says that after the primary those positions will be erased.
Now, I never had any doubt Romney was lying. There's no question about that. Duh. All politicians are deceptive but Romney has lied so blatantly about so many things it's beyond the typical spin of politicians. But many of the folks who are voting for him buy into his BS. Why do you think he spends so much money to propagate his lies. If it doesn't matter then stay home and keep your mouth shut, right?


So these people who Romney is spending so much money on to convince them that he is a conservative, don't you think some of them might be a bit bothered?


Look, Romney has all but got it in the bag but be sure of this, it's not energizing his base and it will be a club to beat over his head the way the Bush campaign beat Kerry well and good over his various positions.
 
Aoidoi said:
Well, I view campaign positions as different from actual candidate beliefs, but that's probably just my cynicism kicking in. I mean, we could assume that all candidates change their beliefs when getting into office, or that they lie on the campaign trail, or both... but not many seem to actually do what they said.
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But he's pretty much saying he's going to renege on primary campaign positions when the campaign for the general election starts. He's basically admitting that they're planning on repackaging Romney for the general election. (This is not about failing to keep promises after taking office.)
 
I read this and started laughing uncontrollably:

There's a silver lining for Mitt Romney with every Etch A Sketch his opponents purchase, though: A big seller is Toys 'R Us, which was bought out in 2005 by an investor consortium including Romney's own Bain Capital.
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Ohio Art's sales of the Etch-a-sketch doubled yesterday.

You just can't make this stuff up.:D
 
Aoidoi said:
Seems like he was talking about shaking up the campaign, not Romney's beliefs. But he made the cardinal sin of campaigning: he tried to tell the truth. Nobody wants to hear that.
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In this particular Republican primary, the worst possible thing any candidate can do is "tell the truth". Don't mention that the economy is recovering. Don't mention that the recession started during the Bush administration, don't mention anything about Bin Laden, don't mention the projected results of your tax cuts on the deficit, don't mention the fact that you lost the last election you were in, and DAMN sure don't mention that your record resembles Obama's in any way.

No, truth is not the friend of Republicans in 2012.
 
RandFan said:
So these people who Romney is spending so much money on to convince them that he is a conservative, don't you think some of them might be a bit bothered?
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OTOH, if it bothers GOP voters that a candidate has re-made himself, the only option for them is Santorum. (Paul has distanced himself from who he was for many years, and Newt is pretending he's the outsider to the GOP "establishment" nowadays!)

And if Santorum won the primary, he would have to re-make himself to have any chance in the general election.
 
Brainster said:
Every candidate panders towards the base of his party for the primaries and then pivots quickly to the center for the general election (and usually for his initial term). Remember Obama promising the Democrats he'd be out of Iraq and Guantanamo Bay inside a year? Etch-a-Sketch.
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Yeah, and he promised that before and after the nomination. What's your point? We're talking about a candidate changing their stances during their campaigns, not after they're elected.

There really is little that Obama changed on during his campaign. The only thing that comes to mind is FISA.
 
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