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Eric Cantor loses primary

I'm with you on everything except this, unless you're going to hang your hat on the "some" qualifier. TPers generally want smaller government AND lower taxes. That's not austerity. In some sense, TEA stands for "Taxed Enough Already." The liberal posters here think that the Tea Party is some sort of racist, fascist movement, but I think of it as more libertarian. The anti-immigration stuff is not particularly libertarian, but put in context with a growing welfare state, I think the usual libertarian principle (e.g. open borders) here is impractical.

Yeah, Brat ran mostly on anti-immigrant racism. He also accused Cantor, who is Jewish, of being in cahoots with Soros, the boogeyman of right wing anti-semites. And let's not forget Cliven Bundy so soon, since he still has a another thing he knows about the Negro.

So yeah, the Tea Party is flat out racist, nativist, conspiratorialist, and the rump of what used to be called the Birchers.

By the way, cutting spending during a recession is the textbook definition of austerity. Are you making up definitions again?
 

Uggh. These analyses are all wrong. They mix up future value with present value. They calculate interest rates incorrectly. They double count all kinds of expenses, and they include expenditures that haven't even been made. The only thing that has been added to the debt is the accounting costs of the wars (which is the number I cited, although even that number includes money we would have spent anyway on the military) plus interest minus the extra tax revenue taken in from the people who earned the money from those expenditures and from the increased economic activity.

And the proper interest rate to use is the average short rate over time (which is less than 1.5% since the start of the war in Afghanistan in November 2001), not the yield on the 30 year Treasury bond.
 
Joe Lieberman endorsed the GOP candidate for president! That exactly mirrors Eric Cantor, said no one, ever.

Right - no one said that.

Cantor/Lieberman lost the support of their constituents/party by supporting positions of their political opposition.
 
Right - no one said that.

Cantor/Lieberman lost the support of their constituents/party by supporting positions of their political opposition.

Right. Unabogie's point is a red herring. Lieberman lost his primary in 2006, which IIRC was before he endorsed John McCain for President in 2008.
 
The Dems didn't put up a candidate in the primary I don't think because Cantor was a lock. Can they put one on the ballot now?

All I can say is a couple dog metaphors come to mind.

Yes. Thats why in my post i listed option 1 AND 2!
I would hope that given this event the dems would put some effort into finding a reasonable candidate that will win against the already spouting return to gawd and the founding fathers morality only concerned with fiscal responsibility tea bagger.

But even if they dont. This guy will be far more interested in continuing his crusade in eating the not conservative enough gop to be anything more than ineffectual.

This ofcourse is the longer and more destructive road but hopefully enough people will start to realize that the loons on the right are out of ideas, stopped even pretending that they care a bit about anyone other than the top 1% and its time for them to go and never come back.
 
Right - no one said that.

Cantor/Lieberman lost the support of their constituents/party by supporting positions of their political opposition.

Right. Unabogie's point is a red herring. Lieberman lost his primary in 2006, which IIRC was before he endorsed John McCain for President in 2008.

Joe Lieberman supported several right wing causes. Eric Cantor supports which left wing causes? And now that Cantor has lost, will we expect him to endorse Hillary Clinton in 2016?
 
US real GDP got back to its pre-crisis peak in early 2011. UK still hasn't.

That's unfortunate, however you didn't address the elephant in the room.

What do you think will be the impact on LT growth of the US gross public debt increasing from $11.4T in 2007 to a projected $22T in 2015, particularly in light of the declining % working population and institutionalized increases in government spending on social programs ? Increasing debt from roughly 60% of GDP debt to 120% of GDP is not ignorable.

Government deficits in recession are understandable, however this rate of debt accumulation seems to be institutionalized well after any recovery bounce could be expected. It seems to be a cargo-cult matter of imagining that all that is needed for better times is spending massively and inefficiently.
 
Yeah, Brat ran mostly on anti-immigrant racism. He also accused Cantor, who is Jewish, of being in cahoots with Soros, the boogeyman of right wing anti-semites. And let's not forget Cliven Bundy so soon, since he still has a another thing he knows about the Negro.

So yeah, the Tea Party is flat out racist, nativist, conspiratorialist, and the rump of what used to be called the Birchers.

Yup. In a nutshell, the Tea Party is the Neo-Confederate party and all that implies. Racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, paternalism, tribalism, and religious extremism. That's what they stand for, what they want to go back to. Don't believe it? Go to a TP rally in Mississippi, Virginia, or even Ohio. You'll see confederate flags. You'll hear paranoid racist, sexist, paternalist, and extremist religious screeds from nearly everyone you encounter. Try asking somebody about Abraham Lincoln and you will hear stuff you would swear could only come from a Confederate soldier circa 1862.

By the way, cutting spending during a recession is the textbook definition of austerity. Are you making up definitions again?

Tea Party supporters and apologists love to redefine words so that their ideology doesn't sound as extremist in mixed company as it actually is.
 
As compared to the US going dangerously into debt and still dragging badly on grown and jobs ?

Any jackass monetarist can create GDP by printing money to pay ppl to dig ditches and fill them in. Creating value is quite different.

I've always thought filling in ditches is a way of creating value. This country's infrastructure is in bad shape, due to natural wear-and-tear and overall neglect. Why not put people to work repairing and maintaining what we already need and use and will, just by its very nature, need constant care? It's kind of like being an exterminator: no matter how clean you are, as long as there are crumbs, an exterminator will be needed because there's always something either in your house or trying to get in.

Michael
 
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Yeah, Brat ran mostly on anti-immigrant racism. He also accused Cantor, who is Jewish, of being in cahoots with Soros, the boogeyman of right wing anti-semites. And let's not forget Cliven Bundy so soon, since he still has a another thing he knows about the Negro.

So yeah, the Tea Party is flat out racist, nativist, conspiratorialist, and the rump of what used to be called the Birchers.

The anti-Semitism charge is a stretch to say the least. Soros is the bogeyman of right wing semites too, like me.

By the way, cutting spending during a recession is the textbook definition of austerity. Are you making up definitions again?

Cutting spending and taxes is not necessarily austerity. Reallocating spending to more productive uses is not austerity either. And rolling back regulation is downright stimulating.
 
What do you think will be the impact on LT growth of the US gross public debt increasing from $11.4T in 2007 to a projected $22T in 2015
Oh, that isn't good no. In fact the US performs worse on public debt (OECD projections, general government gross/net liabilities Annex table 32-33) than the UK even without its austerity.

But the other thing is that the UK's austerity hasn't actually been particularly more effective, in the sense of not narrowing the general government's deficit by anything like as much as was originally projected (data in the same annex tables). The reason for that is that by killing growth, fiscal tightening can have a self-defeating effect.

Bottom line--this isn't actually easy to do with spending cuts or tax rises.
 
The anti-Semitism charge is a stretch to say the least. Soros is the bogeyman of right wing semites too, like me.



Cutting spending and taxes is not necessarily austerity. Reallocating spending to more productive uses is not austerity either. And rolling back regulation is downright stimulating.

Saying that Eric Cantor is in league with Soros is pure nuttery.
 
I'm with you on everything except this, unless you're going to hang your hat on the "some" qualifier. TPers generally want smaller government AND lower taxes. That's not austerity.

To expand on Francesca R's comment, we can interpret government deficit as either insufficient revenue(taxation, nationalization of assets) or else excessive spending, and the deficit can be addressed (austerity) by either means. It's clear enough that government spending has a lower economic multiplier than private spending, therefore we expect tax decreases (which allow greater private sector spending) are a more effective stimulus than added government spending.

So you could have improved austerity with stimulation by decreasing revenues less than spending decreases. You can have smaller government (spending) and less taxes, but not in equal amounts. I think that TPers have divergent views on how to achieve lower taxes and lower deficit(austerity), and these are not well articulated AFAIK.


In some sense, TEA stands for "Taxed Enough Already."

Right. It is a problem that TP is not a centrally organized faction with a well stated position. It allows opponents to scape-goat and demonize in the most outrageous and unfair ways.


The liberal posters here think that the Tea Party is some sort of racist, fascist movement, but I think of it as more libertarian.

I only partly agree.

Racist - Yes, SOME Libs prefer to characterize TP as racist based on the actions of a few. OTOH they blatantly ignore the racism in their own party.

No one would tolerate Obama calling his grandmother a "typical white woman" if the colors were reversed. No one can believe that Eugene Robinson constantly slinging the slur of racism against whites who oppose Obama policies and actions lives up to MLKs criteria of judging by the content of their character and not skin color. Selective editing by the Liberal press to make TP rallies appear more racist is yellow journalism. Snarky insults about Romney's non-Caucasian grandchild in national press shows. Comments about sending Nikki Haley back where she came from by Dem politicians. Then we have a clique of Dems who race-bait for a living; Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton. How abt Harry Reid's comment on Obama as a "‘light-skinned’ African American with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one ?!!? Or, “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking!” – Joe Biden.

Here's recent Democratic contribution to a color blind society.
http://newsone.com/3008750/melissa-harris-perry-jim-coughlan/

These are leaders and press on the issue of race - and ignores constant slurs against religion and things like rank&file SEIU members beating up a black TP supporter (a nice mix of racism and political intolerance from the Left).

Despite all that it's wrong to characterize Dems as racist, as the term applies to a minority of Dems and is not generally part of the party platform or positions. If Dems were as decentralized as TPers it would be easy to slander them unjustly, just as they do to others.

Fascist - does involve ultra nationalism, but supremacy of the state and belief in a strong leader is mostly Dem territory recently IMO. It also involves the state indoctrination of culture that seems to mesh with the Dem agenda of stamping out and denigrating religion, slandering alternative political views, and forcing ppl to use clearly defective unionized public schools and unionized public services. They usually seem quite intolerant of political and cultural dissent - like fascists.


The anti-immigration stuff is not particularly libertarian, but put in context with a growing welfare state, I think the usual libertarian principle (e.g. open borders) here is impractical.

TP seems to primarily be about smaller less onerous government, but that is about where the overlap w/ Libertarainism ends IMO. They don't seem committed to a government of limited powers, rights of the individual, or restricting military to defense role. They don't seem to support free markets & less regulation. They seem to be Reps who want smaller government with most of the same features as big government except less deficit and less taxes. There seems a certain "free lunch" aspect to TP (as I understand it) that they need to address with serious policy proposals. Their minor and failed attempts to cut or reduce certain programs I think is a positive step.

I'm not aware that TP has any stand on (anti) immigration, tho' it's probably a common position among TP supporters. But to the extent that we are taxed for social services then immigration can be financially unfair. Canada, New Zealand, Australia and other advanced nations have immigration criteria that require the immigre demonstrate that they have assets or education or skills and are sufficiently young to self-support AND contribute adequately to social costs. I doubt the average US immigre pays enough in taxes to cover their own children primary education. Then we have the acculturation problem with large immigration influx where the new member of society bring their old views to bear on democracy. If I were Mexican I would greatly desire a stronger Federal government for economic and personal rights reasons, but that view seems antithetical to economic interests and liberty in the US. If I were Mexican I would live in mortal fear of getting bound up in the horrific Spanish derived judicial system and want it reformed. Its not the same issue in the US where the main problem seems to be a judiciary ceding massive power to the government on the flimsiest of arguments.
 
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To expand on Francesca R's comment, we can interpret government deficit as either insufficient revenue(taxation, nationalization of assets) or else excessive spending, and the deficit can be addressed (austerity) by either means. It's clear enough that government spending has a lower economic multiplier than private spending, therefore we expect tax decreases (which allow greater private sector spending) are a more effective stimulus than added government spending.

So you could have improved austerity with stimulation by decreasing revenues less than spending decreases. You can have smaller government (spending) and less taxes, but not in equal amounts. I think that TPers have divergent views on how to achieve lower taxes and lower deficit(austerity), and these are not well articulated AFAIK.
The "elephant in the room" with lower tax and spending is that while it may be net expansionary due to what you mention it is also typically income-regressive (relative to no change), which is an issue many care about, apparently more on the left than the right of centre.

But this is not always and everywhere true, a lot of tax-spend policies could be removed to a net neutral or progressive impact.
 

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