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Enough with the "debunk this"

Arkan_Wolfshade

Philosopher
A
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
7,154
Seriously. I don't care which side of the "aisle" you're on, enough with using the phrase "debunk this" or anything similar. It is promoting confirmation bias in testing and investigation from the very beginning of whatever thread it titles.

For the debunkers, you know all you need to do is present whatever you are questioning and ask for help confirming/falsifying it.

For the CTers, it makes your post overly confrontational and makes it seem that you are not interested in understanding if what you are presenting holds up to scrutiny.

We'd all be better off dropping this phrase from this sub-forums vocabulary.
 
Agreed.

I'd rather look at the evidence for and against something before being demanded to debunk it.

Most conspiracy theorists are under the delusion that we want to debunk absolutely everything. What they fail to realize is that it only seems like we want to debunk everything because, to date, all their claims are debunkable using available evidence.

If I ever find a claim that is backed up, has no countering evidence, and is from a reliable source... I'm happy to accept it as fact. It just so happens that the 9/11 truth movement has been unable to provide anything that isn't countered by overwhelming evidence to the contrary of their claim.

It's also amusing when conspiracy theorists say this because it basically validates that we have completely debunked all their other points. "Debunk this" is another way of saying "You debunked our other stuff... but debunk THIS!". It's the same as Dylan saying "THIS version will be undebunkable... but our other one was".

:i:
 
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When your own bias is involved and you want to test your theory to make sure that your conclusion is consistent with reality- challenge yourself to come up with the fact or piece of evidence that would disprove your theory. Once you have it, go out and try and prove that fact or piece of evidence- if you find it, what does it mean to your theory?

If you can't think of anything- think harder. If you still can't think of anything, then your theory is not falsifiable, which means it's actually not a theory- and your bias has too much influence on your ability to draw a logical conclusion.

This goes for any conspiracist, "debunker", scientist, or layman. This is the piece of the scientific method that allows us to be more confident in our conclusions, but more importantly separates faith from reason- and yes, conspiracism is a faith-based ideology.
 
Hrm, in hindsight I realize my OP may come across a bit confrontational to all, which was not my intent. I'd just like to see us reflect the methodologies that we espouse a little better than we do at the moment.
 
I agree that the term "debunk" has become overused of late.

Perhaps a new term? Transdebunkification?
 
Totovader said:
When your own bias is involved and you want to test your theory to make sure that your conclusion is consistent with reality- challenge yourself to come up with the fact or piece of evidence that would disprove your theory. Once you have it, go out and try and prove that fact or piece of evidence- if you find it, what does it mean to your theory?

If you can't think of anything- think harder. If you still can't think of anything, then your theory is not falsifiable, which means it's actually not a theory- and your bias has too much influence on your ability to draw a logical conclusion.
Click to expand...

It would be nice if people like Lyte Trip took this approach. But, delusions pretty much trump logical thinking, don't they? Do you think that being delusional is a form of mental illness?

@ Arkan. I was thinking the exact same thing this morning as I opened up the forum and saw yet another "Debunk this" thread.
 
Not to mention that every time I open a new thread with a subject like "Hey skeptics, debunk this!" I expect the OP to be a picture of a truther holding his crotch.

Living with such constant worry becomes exhausting, after a while.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Well....
Who put the bunk in the bunk de-bunk-a bunk,
Who put the sphere in the con-spir-a-cy, now,
Who put the bunk in the bunk de-bunk-a bunk,
Who put the chall in the dandy Randi Challenge....

Sorry. I'm better now.
 
Spektator said:
Well....
Who put the bunk in the bunk de-bunk-a bunk,
Who put the sphere in the con-spir-a-cy, now,
Who put the bunk in the bunk de-bunk-a bunk,
Who put the chall in the dandy Randi Challenge....

Sorry. I'm better now.
Click to expand...
Whooooo was that maaaaan,
I'd like to shake his haaaand,
He made a skeptic ou-ou-out of meeee

:boxedin:
 
Furthermore, the whole "debunk this" attitude betrays the Twoofers' many conspiracy theorists' attitude that everyone else in the world is their personal research staff, charged with indulging their fantasies on command.

It's very bad manners to go to a web forum and start ordering people to do what you say. Especially when your questions reveal you haven't done the tiniest bit of research on your own.

I don't mind people who ask "hey, help me answer this friend of mine who told me this conspiracy theory" if they're polite about it, or people who ask questions indicating they read up on the conspiracy but don't understand some portion of it. But the "debunk this, jerks" tone we get out of a lot of people is just plain rude.
 
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Triterope said:
Furthermore, the whole "debunk this" attitude betrays the Twoofers' attitude that everyone else in the world is their personal research staff, charged with indulging their fantasies on command.

It's very bad manners to go to a web forum and start ordering people to do what you say. Especially when your questions reveal you haven't done the tiniest bit of research on your own.

I don't mind people who ask "hey, help me answer this friend of mine who told me this conspiracy theory" if they're polite about it, or people who ask questions indicating they read up on the conspiracy but don't understand some portion of it. But the "debunk this, jerks" tone we get out of a lot of people is just plain rude.
Click to expand...

Good point, I long ago got tired of people asking me to provide proof that the Holocaust happened. I started explaining to them that if someone told me the "official" story about something was a lie, it makes sense to go out and find out what that "official story" is based on and examine the evidence first.

Many of these people embrace conspiracy theories because they never took the time to find out what happened(which is understandable with large, complicated events), and then someone hits them with a bunch of pre-prepared claims on the subject.

I began to believe that if someone states something with enough confidence, often times people will think there is something to it. This usually goes hand in hand with stating some strawman version of the official story first.
 
I should be fair and say that conspiracy theorists who show up with this self-entitled attitude aren't all Twoofers, and that not all Twoofers have the "debunk this" attitude.

My previous post has been edited to reflect this.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Seriously. I don't care which side of the "aisle" you're on, enough with using the phrase "debunk this" or anything similar. It is promoting confirmation bias in testing and investigation from the very beginning of whatever thread it titles.

For the debunkers, you know all you need to do is present whatever you are questioning and ask for help confirming/falsifying it.

For the CTers, it makes your post overly confrontational and makes it seem that you are not interested in understanding if what you are presenting holds up to scrutiny.

We'd all be better off dropping this phrase from this sub-forums vocabulary.
Click to expand...

Very good call.
 
Any title that says 'Debunk this' always puts me in mind of Master Shake from ATHF

Shake: "I Command it!'
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Seriously. I don't care which side of the "aisle" you're on, enough with using the phrase "debunk this" or anything similar. It is promoting confirmation bias in testing and investigation from the very beginning of whatever thread it titles.
Click to expand...

Now hang on one gosh-durned moment. Am I using a different definition of "debunk" than everyone else? I'm assuming "debunk" means something like: Examine this piece of evidence, demonstrate any parts of it that are spurious, and see what's left? To debunk and to disprove are different things. If someone tells me Flight 77 hit the Pentagon because he read the tail number from two miles away, there was identifiable debris on the lawn and DNA evidence identified all the passengers, a debunking would consist of pointing out that he couldn't have read the tail number from that distance; however, the remaining evidence is still enough, once the bunk has been removed, to prove the proposition beyond reasonable doubt. I think we tend to confuse debunking with disproving because in the case of the 9-11 truth movement they always amount to the same thing. In general, though, this needn't be the case.

Dave
 
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