I think there might have been a little wrinkle specifically with Telsa's. I have heard that the range estimates in Tesla cars tend to be more optimistic than other EVs and there is less of a buffer so that when a Tesla reports zero miles of range, the car can't go much farther. Cars like mine where the range estimate displayed seems more conservative and the car can go around ten miles farther after the range estimate shows zero (I am not going to test that!) may be less likely to be stranded waiting for a charge.
Electric Vehicles
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I think there might have been a little wrinkle specifically with Telsa's. I have heard that the range estimates in Tesla cars tend to be more optimistic than other EVs and there is less of a buffer so that when a Tesla reports zero miles of range, the car can't go much farther. Cars like mine where the range estimate displayed seems more conservative and the car can go around ten miles farther after the range estimate shows zero (I am not going to test that!) may be less likely to be stranded waiting for a charge.
Really? I'm not so sure. I've not seen any, just the trash the EV revolution ones, but then I'm not an EV supporter. RR is a suppporter though, and presumably looks for and watches supportive videos, but the algoriithm is still recommending anti EV videos.
Possibly but I didn't see any reports of ICE drivers in chicago having to leave their cars at the petrol stations because the pumps weren't working. The EV problems in chicago were not the result of slightly overoptimistic range estimates.
As I've said upthread, I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't care if their car is ICE or electric, but they want it to be convenient to refuel at all times.
It shouldn't need to be an exercise in logistics each time.
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Well, that's one point where EVs definitely win. An EV can "refuel" anywhere that there is an electrical outlet ... including at home. I seldom leave my driveway with less than a "full tank."
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Cool, now do destinations that are too far from your driveway to get there on a full tank.
ETA: Then do my building, which doesn't have convenient power outlets throughout the parking garage.
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Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
lobosrul5
Philosopher
So can I. But the camera, anyways, has been mandatory per Federal law since 2018. So now that there has to be a screen there, it may as well function as a touch screen.
What I would actually really like is a really simple city EV car that will get 50 miles of range even if its 0 Fahrenheit, and I want it cheap, like 20k. And then when I want to go on a road trip I'll rent a car if needed*. But no one markets such in the USA for some reason.
*I did so recently for a road trip after factoring it will be cheaper than putting miles on my own car due to expected maintenance and depreciation
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
I daily drive a Tesla Model Y, and I straight up ignore the range estimate and only pay attention to the battery percentage. With my driving style, and how much I drive, I have a really good idea on h ow much of a charge I'll need.
I charge daily to 80%, I tend to end up between 20%-50%. If I know I'll be driving more the next day, I'll up the charge to 100%. I have a dedicated 60A level 2 charger which charges the car in a few hours, and I very very rarely need a supercharger. I have likely spent less time waiting for a needed charge on my car the past couple months than most people spend at a gas station.
I have lost some range in the recent cold weather, but nothing terrible. The recent EV issues in Chicago have been odd, since we haven't heard of similar issues in cold or colder climates like Northern Canada or the Nordic countries.
acbytesla
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There's a lot of dishonesty out there about EVs. I can't speak knowledgeably about NZ. But I've heard this argument in the US a lot. It generally is only partially true. Roads in the US are paid for in multiple ways. One of the methods is through the use of gas taxes. And of course EV users avoid that tax. But roads are also funded by annual license fees, property and sales taxes. So this argument is only marginally true.
But let's concede that EV users are avoiding some of their share of the cost of road maintenance. What is society gaining from these people purchasing EVs? And why attempt to reduce the tax advantage at least presently may not be wise.
EVs presently are more expensive to purchase than comparable ICEs. The people purchasing them are early adopters. They are shouldering the cost of EV development. This is a necessary component of technology development. We are approaching what is referred to as the chasm. The number of early adopters run out and it is necessary to cross the chasm and sell EVs to a larger market. Price and cost becomes a larger factor. This is the most tenuous/difficult period in technology development.
I am thoroughly convinced that EVs will eventually replace most ICEs. But we are years before EV market penetration will be enough to reach the tipping point. Being too quick in taxing EVs will slow that development.
That's nice, but I can only park on the street.
Even if I had a place for charging there are 2 long drives I do fairly often where I could only recharge on the street.
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lobosrul5
Philosopher
What issues? I must have missed something. But, Chicago gets far colder than (where the people live) in Nordic countries. Does anyone have an EV in Northern Canada? By north, I mean NW Territory, Nunavut, and Yukon. I'd be surprised if so.
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My home isn't the only source of electricity. It is rather ubiquitous.
Seriously so far, I have never had to drive farther than I can on a single charge. I could drive to work and back for two weeks between charges. I didn't consider it when I first bought an EV, but the convenience of never having to stop for gas or worrying about not having gas in the car when I am late leaving for an appointment has been one of the best benefits.
If I needed to drive more than 300 miles in one day, I would stop and charge my car. There are plenty of Level 2 charging stations and quite a few DC fast chargers pretty much anywhere I might go. At a DC fast charger I can charge my car to 80% in about 20 minutes.
An EV may not be the best choice for some people right now, but that doesn't justify the myhts and lies being spread about them.
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Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
Massive issues with full Supercharge stations, working ones taking 2-3 times as long to charge, and everyone who owned a Tesla apparently trying to charge at t he same rough time resulting in drained and bricked EVs. Made the news out here.
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
Barely, if at all. First Google hit:
“How Much Does a New Car Cost Right Now? The average price for a new vehicle was $48,759 in December 2023 — a month-over-month hike of 1.3% but down 2.4% from what it was one year ago when it reached an all-time high.”
There are some very nice Tesla’s available below that price point. Cheapest is the standard range Model 3 at $38,990. And even that “base model” is quite well equipped, if not luxuriously so.
lobosrul5
Philosopher
I would imagine that 48k average is factoring in big trucks and SUV's. Some of which are eye wateringly expensive at the moment.
For the same model car but the EV version, its almost always more expensive than the base gasoline model.
A decent ICE analog to a Model 3 would be something like a Hyundai Sonata. Starts 13k cheaper than a Model 3.
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Yeah, just saw one yesterday with an English guy wailing about how you can freeze to death or sit on the side of the road.
He was 8 km from home, and complaining that his car was only showing 12 km of range when he put the heater on.
"If I turn the heating on, it instantly loses 4km of range."
No, no it doesn't.
The guessometer works with a basic principle, if nothing changes, this is how much range you have over the next period of driving.
i.e. If you run the heater for the next 20km at maximum setting, to warm up the interior, since you've let the interior drop down to 0°C, then you will lose 4km of range, over that 20km.
Nothing has been lost instantly.
Note that he still had an extra 4km of range beyond what he needed, even with his highly artificial set up, even if he did run the heating. Never mind that the heating would stop drawing so much power after about five minutes.
Just a big, fat, whining, baby.
Guessometers have been on cars since what? The seventies?
And numpties are still getting it wrong on youtube.
You can't compete with stupid, if every EV owner posted the facts, 10,000 more idiots would pop up for each of them and drown them out.
Remember:
"A lie has travelled around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
Again, for the record, I've been driving mine, trouble free, since 2015.
(Ex lease car, one year old when I bought it.)
Stink boxes just look more and bizarre to me every day.
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I think you have to look at the Limited trim to get pretty much the same feature set as the Tesla. In the Limited trim, the Sonata is about the same price as the Model 3 after the $7500 tax credit.
But, yeah, most of the EVs on the market right are higher+end models. But there are less expensive EVs availablej and more are coming. In spite of the issues it had, the Chevy Bolt is pretty nice and lower priced.
Used EVs can be a good choice now. I bought my first EV for $14K. It looked and ran like new (when it cost something like $55K).
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Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Why should I?
It doesn't get very cold around here , about -3 °C (27 °F) in winter. My 2011 Nissan Leaf has no problem with this temperature. It never feels cold inside the car so I haven't needed to use the heater. Most modern EVs can be set to pre-heat the interior and battery if needed.
Leaving any car out in the weather is not good for it. My previous gas car (a Nissan Sentra) ran poorly when cold. After I bought the Leaf I kept the Sentra for a few weeks to use up the remaing fuel in the tank. I would drive it about every third day, leaving it outside because my garage only has room for one car. Even though the Autumn weather wasn't that cold, the car hated it.
It wasn't until I got the Leaf that I realized how bad gas cars are. No matter how cold the weather the Leaf is always ready to go with the same smooth quiet power. No vibration, no smell and no oils stains on the driveway. No need to drive to the gas station and brave the weather while trying to avoid petrol fumes, then standing in line waiting to pay. I just plug the car in when I get up in the morning and it's ready to go when I am.
There wouldn't be much point making a video about how my car performs in the 'cold' because it would be pretty uneventful. However others who live in colder climates have made informative videos. Bjørn Nyland lives in Norway. He has tested many EVs in temperatures as low as -30 °C. His YouTube videos are quite entertaining to watch.
Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh road trip to Folldal in -30°C
Preheating Leaf and ID3 after parked one week in -12°C
icerat
Philosopher
People are looking to rationalise their decision-making
It's currently about -18C here (a bit below 0F), In a few hours I have to drive to a city 100km away, and return. Never had a problem with the cold, charges a little slower, uses a little more.
Did more driving than planned yesterday though, and my ex used the car last night unplanned for a 80km trip, so both used up battery and took away charging time. At present at home we have only a regularly outlet charger, so it's rather slow, battery is at 36% and predicted range 86km, currently charging at 7km/h. All of which I can see from my phone sitting here at my desk, which is super convenient.
So in a few hours I'll be right on the limit of getting to my destination. But I know all of this, so I'll factor in a 15 min stop at a super-charger on the way, then charge it while I go shopping before the return trip.
No problem - for me. Because I think about these things. My ex though, she doesn't think about these things, and doesn't plan. She gets in to trouble with EVs.
If we invest in a fast charger at home, it will be a different story though, with full charge happening overnight with little problem.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
acbytesla
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$50K is insane to me. I grant you that EVs are becoming more affordable, but I don't think we are quite there yet. We need them to be cheap enough that the decision for 80 percent will conclude it's a no brainer.
As the batteries get cheaper, the migration to EVs and home solar panels will be so disruptive to turn the economy on its ear. That day is coming. And this terrifies the fossil fuel industry.
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