Eggs

[acbytesla]

The point of this kind of society is to benefit capitalists. There is no other "society as a whole" - other than the delusion that "society as a whole" somehow includes everybody. It is fairly obvious that it doesn't.
A lower price of living for ordinary people only benefits capitalists if it enables them to lower the price of labour.
Thus capitalists buying up living space and increasing rent benefits society even though it's detrimental to ordinary people who have to pay rent.
If a higher price of eggs benefits ranchers, it's good for society. If it doesn't, it isn't. The current reason why eggs are getting more expensive may benefit ranchers who produce other foodstuffs than eggs. They may benefit from consumers starting to buy other stuff than eggs and thus potentially increasing the price of that other stuff.

Sounds about right. Back to the gilded age.

 

[The Don]

There's the wider question of the sustainability of large scale chicken and egg farming and it's effect on the environment. Our local river, the Wye is heavily polluted and on the verge of being a "dead" river. The primary pollutant is the run-off from large scale chicken and egg farms.

 

[mumblethrax]

There's the wider question of the sustainability of large scale chicken and egg farming and it's effect on the environment. Our local river, the Wye is heavily polluted and on the verge of being a "dead" river. The primary pollutant is the run-off from large scale chicken and egg farms.

Yeah, environmental degradation is another major negative externality.

 

[acbytesla]

Not across the board, no. More expensive gasoline/petrol raises the cost of living in the short term, but also incentivizes behaviors that produce better outcomes (people move closer to cities, drive smaller cars, switch to electric vehicles or public transit, etc.)

What do you mean "not across the board?" You mean trading comfort in the burbs for misery in overcrowded cities is a good thing? I would love to afford to live in the city. But it costs significantly more to rent, and buy staples there. If you think it is better for people to live in urban areas make it attractive to do that.

I live in the rural area of Washington State. Totally off grid. Solar powers my home and soon a vehicle. My carbon footprint is small. I work online.
Why should I live in the city?

 

[mumblethrax]

What do you mean "not across the board?"

I mean that it matters how you get to a lower cost of living. Killing off 10% of the population of NYC might reduce my rent (by a lot, if I'm among the 10%), but as a policy move, I think it has some drawbacks.

I live in the rural area of Washington State. Totally off grid. Solar powers my home and soon a vehicle. My carbon footprint is small. I work online.
Why should I live in the city?

It's not that I think that you should live in the city, it's that I don't think your choice to live where you do should be subsidized.

 

[acbytesla]

I mean that it matters how you get to a lower cost of living. Killing off 10% of the population of NYC might reduce my rent (by a lot, if I'm among the 10%), but as a policy move, I think it has some drawbacks.


It's not that I think that you should live in the city, it's that I don't think your choice to live where you do should be subsidized.

Here are some realities. America is more efficient than ever. The world is more efficient. GDP has skyrocketed since WW2. And yet the quality of life for average Americans is decreasing and has been since the mid 1980s. We have millions of Americans that live on the streets. Almost no one did in 1980. A single American has been compensated to the tune of a half trillion dollars. That's enough money to pay $100K salaries to 5 million people for a year. That's enough money to build two Interstate Highways coast to coast. Things are screwed up

Isn't about time to turn that around as opposed to doubling down on policies that benefit only a tiny few?

 

[mumblethrax]

Isn't about time to turn that around as opposed to doubling down on policies that benefit only a tiny few?

If you ask me if we should work towards a more egalitarian society, my answer is (emphatically!) yes.

If you ask me whether the way forward is to subsidize the production of eggs, doubling down on ill-advised agricultural policy, my answer is no. That's just good money after bad.

 

[acbytesla]

If you ask me if we should work towards a more egalitarian society, my answer is (emphatically!) yes.

If you ask me whether the way forward is to subsidize the production of eggs, doubling down on ill-advised agricultural policy, my answer is no. That's just good money after bad.

Is it ill advised?

How much does the country spend subsidizing eggs? We subsidize lots of things. Like milk, corn and soybean production. I think the corn subsidies are far worse for the economy and the environment. Yet Ethanol is by far the most subsidized fuel in the US and it doesn'tmake fuel cheaper for consumers. I bet whatever we pay to subsidize corn is many magnitudes greater than what we pay or even could pay to subsidize eggs.

I'm not saying you're not right. Perhaps it is ill advised. I need to look at this more closely. But replacing eggs in food is a major step. I eat them almost every day. I go through at least two dozen a week. But if chickens are a problem, beef is not the answer. It too has skyrocketed in price. Are you saying I have to become a vegan? You might as well shoot me now.

 

[mumblethrax]

Is it ill advised?

Yes, for the reasons already mentioned, and more.

I'm not saying you're not right. Perhaps it is ill advised. I need to look at this more closely. But replacing eggs in food is a major step. I eat them almost every day. I go through at least two dozen a week. But if chickens are a problem, beef is not the answer. It too has skyrocketed in price. Are you saying I have to become a vegan? You might as well shoot me now.

No, I'm not saying that you have to be vegan (there's a distinction between ought and must), but we're facing some hard realities in an era of polycrisis, and people should be prepared for the future to not be exactly like the past. Eggs might just be more expensive from now on (although the prices will probably drop in the short term).

Personally, I haven't (intentionally) eaten an egg in over twenty years, and I'm doing fine. It wasn't that hard. My ancestors, even the recent ones, dealt with far worse.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes, for the reasons already mentioned, and more.


No, I'm not saying that you have to be vegan (there's a distinction between ought and must), but we're facing some hard realities in an era of polycrisis, and people should be prepared for the future to not be exactly like the past. Eggs might just be more expensive from now on (although the prices will probably drop in the short term).

Personally, I haven't (intentionally) eaten an egg in over twenty years, and I'm doing fine. It wasn't that hard. My ancestors, even the recent ones, dealt with far worse.

You may not eat eggs as an entree, but I guarantee you consume more than you realize.

Replacing eggs in all those recipes is a major change. I not only cook eggs dozens of different ways, I bake with them, I make dozens of sauces with eggs. Bernaise, Aoli, Hollandaise are just a few. I haven't bought mayonnaise in a store in decades. All you need to make mayo is eggs and oil. Even with today's high egg prices it is maybe 10 to 15% the cost of a jar of Best Foods.

 

[mumblethrax]

You may not eat eggs as an entree, but I guarantee you consume more than you realize.

I don't eat eggs at all. Not as an entree, not as an ingredient.

Replacing eggs in all those recipes is a major change. I not only cook eggs dozens of different ways, I bake with them, I make dozens of sauces with eggs. Bernaise, Aoli, Hollandaise are just a few. I haven't bought mayonnaise in a store in decades. All you need to make mayo is eggs and oil. Even with today's high egg prices it is maybe 10 to 15% the cost of a jar of Best Foods.

I used to do that, too. Now I make it with other ingredients. It wasn't hard. This stuff just strikes me as learned helplessness.

 

[Resume]

But if chickens are a problem, beef is not the answer. It too has skyrocketed in price

I'm not calling you on this specifically but making sort of a general observation. To Eraserhead Jesse Watters' horror and condemnation, I do a lot of grocery shopping with (and without) my wife, and though I've felt inflation in many areas, beef is not one of them. Now maybe it's because I limit my beef intake to once a month, but shopping sales, I'm paying only about one dollar per pound more for good steak cuts than I had ten years ago. I live two suburbs northwest of Chicago, so I have a nice choice of stores. But even up at the lake house where I have maybe one and a half choices, I can still find choice ribeyes for $5.99 a pound on sale.

Yeah, yeah I know, good for me, but the only time I spending $16+ a pound is for prime when it's on sale at Costco or the like. That compared to $32+ a pound for prime loin primals at my butcher. There was a magawhiner around hereabouts that complained about Bidenflation and grocery store prices, but some of them he quoted had to be bull ◊◊◊◊. I could only assume he shopped exclusively at the Food & Stuff up his local holler.

Again, not calling you out, just relating my experience.

.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't eat eggs at all. Not as an entree, not as an ingredient.


I used to do that, too. Now I make it with other ingredients. It wasn't hard. This stuff just strikes me as learned helplessness.

Tell me how to make hollandaise sauce without an egg. No offense, but I bet money it is terrible. (But I'm willing to be surprised.)

 

[alfaniner]

What's the big deal? I don't think at even $1 US each that they would be that expensive. Four eggs (with a couple other things) make a decent meal. It's still a lot less than you'd pay at a restaurant. (Maybe not a greasy spoon diner...)
Now, if baking is your business I can see how higher prices would have a big impact on that. But for the average consumer, no. I know it's just a political talking point because the price of eggs is something everyone can identify with.

 

[mumblethrax]

Tell me how to make hollandaise sauce without an egg. No offense, but I bet money it is terrible. (But I'm willing to be surprised.)

Generally by replacing the lipids and proteins, and using black salt to give it an eggy flavor.

E.g.: https://tastythriftytimely.com/vegan-hollandaise-sauce/

 

[acbytesla]

I'm not calling you on this specifically but making sort of a general observation. To Eraserhead Jesse Watters' horror and condemnation, I do a lot of grocery shopping with (and without) my wife, and though I've felt inflation in many areas, beef is not one of them. Now maybe it's because I limit my beef intake to once a month, but shopping sales, I'm paying only about one dollar per pound more for good steak cuts than I had ten years ago. I live two suburbs northwest of Chicago, so I have a nice choice of stores. But even up at the lake house where I have maybe one and a half choices, I can still find choice ribeyes for $5.99 a pound on sale.

Yeah, yeah I know, good for me, but the only time I spending $16+ a pound is for prime when it's on sale at Costco or the like. That compared to $32+ a pound for prime loin primals at my butcher. There was a magawhiner around hereabouts that complained about Bidenflation and grocery store prices, but some of them he quoted had to be bull ◊◊◊◊. I could only assume he shopped exclusively at the Food & Stuff up his local holler.

Again, not calling you out, just relating my experience.

If you can find ribeye for $5.99 a pound, please let me know where you're shopping. That is my favorite cut. $5.99 lb is what I use to spend 15 years ago. If i ever saw it at that price in the last 5 years, I would snap it up in an instant. Today, almost every where I shop, I'm looking at $12.99 to $15 a pound. Once in a while I see it on sale for $9.99. Hell, I can hardly find 26% ground beef for under $5.00 a pound. I absolutely love beef so i tend to look. But it is usually so expensive I buy pork or chicken instead. Just can't justify it.

 

[acbytesla]

Generally by replacing the lipids and proteins, and using black salt to give it an eggy flavor.

E.g.: https://tastythriftytimely.com/vegan-hollandaise-sauce/

Looks absolutely hideous. But I'll give it a go.

 

[mumblethrax]

Looks absolutely hideous. But I'll give it a go.

Well, as long as you're going into it with an open mind.

 

[acbytesla]

What's the big deal? I don't think at even $1 US each that they would be that expensive. Four eggs (with a couple other things) make a decent meal. It's still a lot less than you'd pay at a restaurant. (Maybe not a greasy spoon diner...)
Now, if baking is your business I can see how higher prices would have a big impact on that. But for the average consumer, no. I know it's just a political talking point because the price of eggs is something everyone can identify with.

That adds up. A few years ago, I could make a 4 egg omelet at home for a dollar. Now you think that raising the price of breakfast to $5 isn't a bite? That's another $80 a month just for a single entree. And oh by the way, when prices on things like this go up, lots of other things you buy go up.

 

[Resume]

If you can find ribeye for $5.99 a pound, please let me know where you're shopping. That is my favorite cut. $5.99 lb is what I use to spend 15 years ago. If i ever saw it at that price in the last 5 years, I would snap it up in an instant. Today, almost every where I shop, I'm looking at $12.99 to $15 a pound. Once in a while I see it on sale for $9.99. Hell, I can hardly find 26% ground beef for under $5.00 a pound. I absolutely love beef so i tend to look. But it is usually so expensive I buy pork or chicken instead. Just can't justify it.

Marianos, a fancy Kroger, Jewel Foods, an Albertson's subsidiary, Woodman's, a Wisconsin chain that sometimes offers whole striploin for $5.99 a pound. Almost all these stores offer standing ribroasts for the holidays at $5.99 to $6.99 a pound. When I'm up north, I go to Henson's market, a sort of Jack Link's outlet (In addition to other things) that sometimes offers tenderloin for $12.99 a pound as does my local Aldi. I mentioned Costco in the post above, and during the holiday season a few years back, they offered prime tenderloin for $18.99 a pound. This summer,they had striploin for $6.99 a pound the week I got back from the lake where I paid $8.99 a pound for a father's day grillout. I was pissed.

I will derail this thread no more.