Edward Felt Flight 93

He will never answer.....it would cover him in paint..since he already painted himself into the corner.
 
Carll68 said:
I have no questions remaining about WHAT OCCURRED on September 11th, 2001, when 19 highly educated, motivated and well funded terrorists boarded 4 commercial airliners, hijacking them. I have no questions as to why 3 of the 4 flights offered little to no effective resistance considering they were faced with armed men, threating to kill more crew and/or passenger and/or detonate the psuedo bomb they had - especially considering the threat that if they (the victims) cooperated, all would end safely.

In fact, I have details, backed up by evidence, to support my answers.

However, it was a co-worker - who made the claim that Flight 93 was shot down. After I conveyed to him that all the evidence contradicts this claim, he mentioned the phone call he heard on the radio from a passenger talking about smoke and an explosion..LIVE.

Now, we all know that this can not and is not true. There were no calls to a radio station from FL93, Radio stations do not broadcast live 9-1-1- calls, and no 9-1-1 calls were played.

Knowing this, I investigated further and found that he was referencing Mr. Edward Helm. Mr. Helms transcripts are above. He never stated he heard an explosion or saw smoke. However, Mr. Crammer, his supervisor who did not take the call, did.

So, yes, all my questions are and have been answered, and they all support what really happened on that fateful day in September 2001.......and Jet Engine parts are still not Plymouth Wheel Covers, and thermite still does not react horizontally on a vertical plane.

In an effort to be proactive, I have inquired as to the location of Mr. Crammers' report to the A.P. that was broadcast on 9/11, for contrast purposes. I also would like to hear what others know - to confirm what I think - regarding how in the call transcripts Mr. Helm knew at 5000ft he was over Mt.Pleasant. Perhaps he knew before he went into the bathroom. Perhaps this information was gathered in another way. Whatever and however he gained it, it was gained.

Intelligent discussion and thoughts will not be ignored. Idiotic claims based on unfounded speculation will.
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This is priceless. Jammonius, in case you haven't figured it out, Carl68 is sort of the Gary Cooper character - the strong silent type. He's got a little over 50 posts in the past year, but when he jumps on a thread,.... Well, he JUMPS ON IT.

Handed you back yours on a platter, I'd say! :spjimlad::spjimlad::spjimlad:
 
Foolmewunz said:
This is priceless. Jammonius, in case you haven't figured it out, Carl68 is sort of the Gary Cooper character - the strong silent type. He's got a little over 50 posts in the past year, but when he jumps on a thread,.... Well, he JUMPS ON IT.

Handed you back yours on a platter, I'd say! :spjimlad::spjimlad::spjimlad:
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Yep game,set and match to Carl68.
 
dafydd said:
Yep game,set and match to Carl68.
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You're kidding right? Jammonius doesn't play using the same deck of cards as the rest of us. He thinks he's much smarter, more observant and clever then "normal" people. Nothing will change his mind. Nothing short of medication or therapy.
 
DavidJames said:
You're kidding right? Jammonius doesn't play using the same deck of cards as the rest of us. He thinks he's much smarter, more observant and clever then "normal" people. Nothing will change his mind. Nothing short of medication or therapy.
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Well, keeping with the tennis metaphor....

What Jammonius thinks the rules are is actually of no bearing to reality. It's sort of like watching Federer play a match against Paulie Shore. Paulie would run around in over-sized shorts and make all sorts of funny gestures that would have one or two in the grandstands laughing, but Roger would beat him 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 and the court officials would just be sitting there counting the points and ignoring the shenanigans and distractions.
 
DavidJames said:
You're kidding right? Jammonius doesn't play using the same deck of cards as the rest of us. He thinks he's much smarter, more observant and clever then "normal" people. Nothing will change his mind. Nothing short of medication or therapy.
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Never mind,we know better.
 
Stew-Ped

Nah, he won't comment. Why would he? He has no answer for the fate of Mr. Felt, he is too busy speculating about that which he is painfully uneducated, namely physics...oh, and lest I forget, he is also busy calling commercial aircrafts "shadow thingys"
 
Now I can add jurisprudence to the list of things Jammonius has not a clue.

1) Physics
2) Photo interpretation
3) Automobile hub caps
4) Critical thinking


I'm sure I could come up with more, but it isn't worth the effort.

Maybe a thread should be started "Truthers, what isn't your expertise?"

It could very well be the largest thread ever and cause the internet to implode into a singularity.
 
Carll68 said:
Excellent T.A.M. :-) The hammer that drives the nail home is the actual call transcripts presented earlier.

Are there any links or information such as an audio file specific to the A.P. story that was heard--the one where Glen Cramer stated Mr. Felt said there was smoke and an explosion? This interests me for contrast purposes.

Being pro-active:

Does anyone have any insight as to why Mr. Cramer made these erroneous claims, i.e., has he ever mentioned it?

Also, in the call transcript, Mr Felt mentions they are above Mt.Pleasant while calling from an airplane lavoratory. Any indication how he knew where they were from 5000 ft in a lavoratory?

Thank You
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This is a good question.
 
Indeed.

I am still curious if the original transcript or news report from Mr. Cramer is available in order to ascertain if he actually stated that Mr Felt said there was smoke and an explosion, or this story amounts to nothing more than a common listener error or fabrication. Thus far, have been unable to obtain this information.

If indeed he did state that Mr. Felt stated there was an explosion and smoke, what, if any, was his justified rationale for saying this?

We know from the CVR that there was no mention of smoke or explosion after 9:58 - when Mr. Felts call was placed - leading up to impact.

We also know from the FDR that the plane exhibited no characteristics of a damaged vessel.
 
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Carll68 said:
Indeed.

I am still curious if the original transcript or news report from Mr. Cramer is available in order to ascertain if he actually stated that Mr Felt said there was smoke and an explosion, or this story amounts to nothing more than a common listener error or fabrication. Thus far, have been unable to obtain this information.

If indeed he did state that Mr. Felt stated there was an explosion and smoke, what, if any, was his justified rationale for saying this?

We know from the CVR that there was no mention of smoke or explosion after 9:58 - when Mr. Felts call was placed - leading up to impact.

We also know from the FDR that the plane exhibited no characteristics of a damaged vessel.
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the folks here will hate me, but one option could be a later fabrication of the call by voice morphing, then the transcript is faked, too. There are two hints for that.

1. Edward Felt spoke with 911 dispatcher John Shaw just minutes before Flight 93 reportedly crashed, and said his plane had been hijacked. According to Shaw, Felt "was crying ... frightened, scared, and anxious." But Felt's brother Gordon, who heard the recording of the call, has disputed this, saying: "My brother was not scared. He was very composed, under the circumstances." [38] Felt's wife, who heard the recording of the 911 call and also the Flight 93 cockpit voice recording, said Edward "was very calm in the face of death." [39]
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/oneyearlater/s_90872.html

2. According to one 911blogger, neither Shaw nor his supervisor may defend their version. I do not know, weather this is the truth.
 
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bio said:
1. Edward Felt spoke with 911 dispatcher John Shaw just minutes before Flight 93 reportedly crashed, and said his plane had been hijacked. According to Shaw, Felt "was crying ... frightened, scared, and anxious." But Felt's brother Gordon, who heard the recording of the call, has disputed this, saying: "My brother was not scared. He was very composed, under the circumstances." [38] Felt's wife, who heard the recording of the 911 call and also the Flight 93 cockpit voice recording, said Edward "was very calm in the face of death." [39]
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I don't know if you have a brother, or if you are close, but I can guarantee that I could never be fooled into thinking it was my brother talking when it wasn't, even if "voice morphing" technology of the kind needed for this existed in 2001, or now, which it doesn't.
 
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twinstead said:
I don't know if you have a brother, or if you are close, but I can guarantee that I could never be fooled into thinking it was my brother talking when it wasn't, even if "voice morphing" technology of the kind needed for this existed in 2001, or now, which it doesn't.
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Given that data associated with the call shows that the call was made from Felt's cell phone while Felt was on the plane and the plane was on it's way to Shanksville, if someone claims "morphing" happened they have to explain how it was done from Flight 93 while Felt wasn't looking.

As you've already been told, "morphing" that makes someone sound like someone else doesn't exist.
 
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LashL said:
No. See this post in this thread.
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...I am writing about the possibility of a "later" voice morphing...it happened later, after the crash...

from your link:
"For example, it is necessary to have samples of the voices of the people to be imitated. In situations like this, where the goal is to participate in an unconstrained conversation, the voice sample must be extensive."

That would not be a problem then, because the original call was recorded.
 
BigAl said:
Given that data associated with the call shows that the call was made from Felt's cell phone while Felt was on the plane and the plane was on it's way to Shanksville, if someone claims "morphing" happened they have to explain how it was done from Flight 93 while Felt wasn't looking.

As you've already been told, "morphing" that makes someone sound like someone else doesn't exist.
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... and this "data associated with the call" cannot be faked.
 
bio said:
... and this "data associated with the call" cannot be faked.
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Phone system hackers of my distant acquaintance, two of whom have done federal time for messing with phone systems have made this statement. This is not "CALLER ID" that shows up in your handset, that can be easily faked.

The call data is the data used to generate your phone bills and the phone company takes very good care of it.

Yes, it could be faked just like the books for the bank can be faked if you have enough people inside the company and in on the scam, but it's lots of people for the phone system or the bank.

In any case, the Felt's call data is consistent with everything else we know about Flight 93. You'd have to fake lots more than the call data to keep a consistent story.

IMO, 70,0001 people would be about right for the number of people involved with faking the standard story of the hijacking of the 4 planes.

I've been on the white-hat side of hacking, some of it in a professional capacity since about 1980.

1. Gravy's estimate of the number of people involved with the recovery and investigation of what happened on 9/11.
 
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