Merged [Ed] Convicted Lockerbie bomber released

[E.J.Armstrong]

Id say those commentators have hit the nail on the head there.

You don't seem to know what you think.

You previously stated: -

'...There was zero reason to free this mass murderer other than to secure some oil deals with Libya. ...'

So what is it snub to the USA or oil deals?

Care to show us all your avowed hatred for the SNP some more?

 

[funk de fino]

You have entered denial.
Its not hard to work out what the differences are between the two cases, a little bit of knowledge of the situation in NI and the situation re Libya would go a long way to helping you out.
This is becoming little different to debating with truthers.

Care to show me exactly what is wrong with what I said was the same between the two situations? Was my claim correct?

I know all about NI, I served during the troubles. I have also been to Libya working.

How about you? You are the one who avoiding answering questions and failing to back up your outrageous claims. You are more like that guy in your avatar every post.

 

[scissorhands]

You don't seem to know what you think.

You previously stated: -

'...There was zero reason to free this mass murderer other than to secure some oil deals with Libya. ...'

So what is it snub to the USA or oil deals?

Care to show us all your avowed hatred for the SNP some more?

I also explained that petty political posturing by the SNP had a lot to do with this.
Funny you forgot to mention that?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

And another similarity, in both cases the opposition to the releases by families of victims were "ignored".

 

[scissorhands]

I know all about NI, I served during the troubles. I have also been to Libya working.

Then you would know the circumstances for the release of prisoners and what it was intended to achieve, wouldnt you?

Explain that, then we can move on to why you think the release of a convicted mass murderer from Libya is analagous?

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I also explained that petty political posturing by the SNP had a lot to do with this.
Funny you forgot to mention that?

Think you need to consult a dictionary again.

Explain does not mean "claimed without any evidence".

 

[funk de fino]

Then you would know the circumstances for the release of prisoners and what it was intended to achieve, wouldnt you?

Explain that, then we can move on to why you think the release of a convicted mass murderer from Libya is analagous?

Then it still is irrelevant to the priciple of the release of a guilty murderer. Govts do it. The situation of the release is of zero consequence. The principle is the same. You want tp pick and choose who is released and only care about victims families feelings when it suits you.

The analogy is the release of a guilty man. Not the reasons for it. You either agree with releasing guilty men early or you dont. If you pick and choose based on who did it then that is wrong.

Who released Ronnie Biggs? For what reason?

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Then it still is irrelevant to the priciple of the release of a guilty murderer. Govts do it. The situation of the release is of zero consequence. The principle is the same. You want tp pick and choose who is released and only care about victims families feelings when it suits you.

The analogy is the release of a guilty man. Not the reasons for it. You either agree with releasing guilty men early or you dont. If you pick and choose based on who did it then that is wrong.

Who released Ronnie Biggs? For what reason?

What he is saying is that it is wrong for the SNP to do it for (according to him) political reasons.

But it is not wrong for Labour to do it for (according to him) political reasons.

Of course that doesn't make sense, but then again given his posts in this thread, that should hardly be a surprise.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Im all for compassion.
Compassion for the victims families tends to be forefront though, compassion for the mass murderer who killed their loved ones?
Not so much.

Luckily the Scottish legal system does not share your lack of compassion or your lack of acknowledgement in a number of your posts that Scottish people died in the atrocity.

 

[Nogbad]

The NI prisoners were released as part of the normalisation process to bring Unionist and Nationalist groups back into the mainstream political fold..culminating in Adams and Paisley sitting around the table sharing a joke.

Libya on the other is about normalising relations and bringing the country back into the international political and economic fold...culminating in Gadaffi going to Italy on a State visit (somewhat eccentrically attired and with gorgeous body guards) and sharing a joke with Berlusconi (who probably thought the bodyguard thing was rather nifty)

No similarity whatsoever in the backdrop really.

 

[scissorhands]

Then it still is irrelevant to the priciple of the release of a guilty murderer. Govts do it. The situation of the release is of zero consequence. The principle is the same. You want tp pick and choose who is released and only care about victims families feelings when it suits you.

The analogy is the release of a guilty man. Not the reasons for it. You either agree with releasing guilty men early or you dont. If you pick and choose based on who did it then that is wrong.

Who released Ronnie Biggs? For what reason?

So you served in NI (and I do have respect for you for doing so), yet you are unable to explain what the reasoning was behind the release of prisoners?
And you consider that the release of a convicted mass murderer from Libya as being basically the same?
Ronnie Biggs killed no-one, never mind 270 people, Im lost as to why you bring him up.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Whats a Usan?
If you mean the USA then what kind of inhumanity do you think the USA is trying to introduce into the Scottish system?
Keeping a mass murderer in prison is fairly normal procedure worldwide.

Usan is a term the refers collectively to the people of the USA.

The inhumane notion that vengeance is all and that prisoners near death cannot be allowed out on compassionate grounds.

Once again you ignore his fatal disease and imminent death. That is the inhumanity I am talking about.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Its something you show buckets of every time you post anything about the USA.
Are you proud?

That is something you have just made up.

I notice that you have failed to provide one single word of mine to support your assertion.

You do know that the truth does not consist of what you assert.

Care to support your allegation with one or two words of mine - once you've decided what you do think was the reason for Megrahi's release.

You are the only one on this thread that I am aware of who has proudly asserted his hatred of anything.

 

[Rolfe]

May being the operative word.
He is convicted of killing 270 people, do you make a habit of cheering people convicted of mass murder simply because you arent quite sure he did it?

I don't think Professor Yaffle was cheering. I don't think anyone on this forum was cheering.

Can you produce one single person who was in that crowd who just "wasn't quite sure" he did it?

Thought not.

If one of my countrymen had been set up and framed for an atrocity he didn't commit, and imprisoned, and seemed likely to die in prison, and remember I'm quite certain he's innocent, you know I might go the airport and cheer a bit when he was released too. No matter who told me I should keep quiet because it might upset someone.

It's ridiculous to criticise the behaviour of the Libyans on the assumption that they share your belief in his guilt.

Rolfe.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

E.J.:

In large part I think I err on the side you argue for. As I said in my earlier post, I think what the Scottish govt did, is by the Christian standard, the thing to do...to show mercy where none was shown to thee.

That said, one has to understand the extreme anger, and need for revenge that is human nature, regardless of religious affiliation. I have no idea how I would react if I had lost someone due to this maniac, and now had to watch him not only freed, but arrive home to a "celebration".

I do think though, that there is a reason why laws should be made by civil, insightful men and women at a time when they are not clouded in thought by related events or their ties to them.

TAM

I think everyone understands anger at the atrocity at Lockerbie. The difference seems to reside in the treatment of the only man found guilty. In that regard you make a good point about laws made in anger and/or haste. The compassion 'law' was not one of them.

It is remarkable the apparent difference between what I have called the old versus new testament approaches on the different sides of the atlantic. I do not understand why it exists (if it does in reality but I have never heard one UK family complain about Megrahi's release. They wanted to know the whole story and like me are afraid that it will not now come out).

The Scottish government has no control over what Libyans do in their own country, they could only follow the law of Scotland. Having done so they have stated they were disgusted by the apparent celebration and if it was to celebrate the deaths of 270 people I would agree.

 

[Rolfe]

You mean you were speculating?
OK.

You watched that video link yet? The Oliver Miles interview?

Rolfe.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

I also explained that petty political posturing by the SNP had a lot to do with this.
Funny you forgot to mention that?

So when you used the word 'zero' in your claim namely that: -

'...There was zero reason to free this mass murderer other than to secure some oil deals with Libya. ...'

it just wasn't true because you actually thought there were two reasons.

So do you believe there is only one reason, two reasons or more reasons you have yet to come up with because of your proudly stated hatred of nationalists?

Hatred is such a confusing emotion isn't it?

 

[Rolfe]

I think everyone understands anger at the atrocity at Lockerbie. The difference seems to reside in the treatment of the only man found guilty.

But clearly, even if he was, he wasn't the only one who was guilty. He didn't just dream this idea up all by himself and decide to bomb an airliner. He was an intelligence agent, not Osama bin Laden.

So who did?

Well, if you adhere to the Official Version, Gaddafi did that bit. Because of a series of US bombing raids on Libyan cities in 1986, launched from UK air bases, in which his step-daughter was killed and which were believed to be aimed at killing him.

So what the hell is the point in demonising a terminally ill catspaw, while shaking the hand of the man who planned and ordered the atrocity?

Rolfe.

 

[scissorhands]

Usan is a term the refers collectively to the people of the USA.

The inhumane notion that vengeance is all and that prisoners near death cannot be allowed out on compassionate grounds.

Once again you ignore his fatal disease and imminent death. That is the inhumanity I am talking about.

And Im supposed be compassionate to someone who murdered 270 people in cold blood, none of which got any kind of time with their relatives prior to their deaths?
Nah, he should have been dropped out of an airplane without a parachute, a long time ago.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Anyone can read your posts E.J, they are some of the most twisted and hateful posts on the whole forum and there are way too many to count.
Its laughable that you would bother trying to deny this.

Now go away.

Once again you have just made that up. You still seem to be confused about what you think the reason for the release of Megrahi was and that you simply asserting something does not make it true.

I notice once again that you failed to provide one word of mine to support your allegations. I take it that is because you have been utterly unable to find one that supports your fantasy even though there are apparently too many for your counting abilities. Odd.

You also need to know that I have not in the past do not now and will not in the future obey people who order me about in your very intemperate way.

Can I suggest that if you want anyone to take you seriously you actually find some evidence to support your claims?