Dynamo Magician Impossible

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Dynamo - as he presents, is no doubt the most amazing Magician I have ever seen on the TV.

Really? He's terrible.

 

[Garrette]

When it comes to Magicians, the more realistic they are, the more believable they are.
Just like with special effects.

Some people are more gullible - especially as children.

Reference the part I highlighted: I am not sure this is true. Children can be quite difficult to fool, particularly if the presentation is one whose obvious intent is to fool as opposed to being the means to a story.

One hypothesis to explain this, and I think there is at least some truth in it, is that younger children have not been habituated to certain movements meaning certain things, i.e., this hand position means I transferred a coin to the other hand. A magician who mimics such a hand movement for adults will be believed because the adults "know" that such a movement automatically means the coin was transferred. A child, though, may not know it at all so there is no assumption of actual transfer.

That being said, children become quite willing to overlook even the most blatant and clumsy manipulations when they are wrapped in an entertaining story. Google a couple versions of the classic children's effect "Run Rabbit Run" for a decent example.

 

[Garrette]

I've heard a lot of stories from other magicians about people shrieking in fear, or running away, or accusing them of being Satanic minions - so I agree, some people do "believe" it's real. But they are good stories because they are rare, not because they are the norm. The few effects I've done that could have been real or not (like shoving a needle through your arm) didn't require any supernatural explanations, even it it wasn't accomplished by trickery.

The norm is a bit of awe, a bit of amazement and a lot of delight.

Can magic serve the woomeister? Sure. Uri Geller comes to mind. But he purposely stayed away from other types of tricks that would have shown him out as a magician.

Agreed, it is rare for an exceptional reaction such as running away, and it is even more rare in straight magic. Mentalism, however, in my experience very commonly elicits a response of confirmed belief, usually in a positive sense but sometimes in a negative sense. Neither the presence of nor the bluntness of disclaimers appear to have any appreciable effect.

Paradoxically, the strongest such reaction I have received was not with a mentalist effect but with an impromptu coin vanish and materialization across the room. Looking back, I suspect the reaction was so strong because the presentation was not in an entertainment venue but in a cozy home, sitting on the floor chatting with friends. I had not expected such a strong reaction, and I admit that I did not try hard to dispel the accusation of "you're in league with the devil." I responded with a crooked smile and a softly whispered "I have been accused of that, yes."

 

[Navigator]

Really? He's terrible.

Do you have evidence?

Some of his tricks are fascinating.

Can you link me to someone you think is the best?

 

[Navigator]

I've heard a lot of stories from other magicians about people shrieking in fear, or running away, or accusing them of being Satanic minions - so I agree, some people do "believe" it's real. But they are good stories because they are rare, not because they are the norm. The few effects I've done that could have been real or not (like shoving a needle through your arm) didn't require any supernatural explanations, even it it wasn't accomplished by trickery.

The norm is a bit of awe, a bit of amazement and a lot of delight.

Can magic serve the woomeister? Sure. Uri Geller comes to mind. But he purposely stayed away from other types of tricks that would have shown him out as a magician.

That's interesting Marplots, thank you.

So are you saying Dynamo is encouraging wooism? (I am saying he is) Can you point me to any Magician who isn't?
By that I mean to say, I am interested in the possibility that there are and having a look at how they present their tricks to the public.

 

[Navigator]

Reference the part I highlighted: I am not sure this is true. Children can be quite difficult to fool, particularly if the presentation is one whose obvious intent is to fool as opposed to being the means to a story.

One hypothesis to explain this, and I think there is at least some truth in it, is that younger children have not been habituated to certain movements meaning certain things, i.e., this hand position means I transferred a coin to the other hand. A magician who mimics such a hand movement for adults will be believed because the adults "know" that such a movement automatically means the coin was transferred. A child, though, may not know it at all so there is no assumption of actual transfer.

That being said, children become quite willing to overlook even the most blatant and clumsy manipulations when they are wrapped in an entertaining story. Google a couple versions of the classic children's effect "Run Rabbit Run" for a decent example.

Hi Garrette
To clarify, the tricks which fool children also have to be more clever than what you have exampled.

And:

Not all Children are the same. Some are fooled more than others, but in general all can be fooled.

I haven't made up my mind if that could be classed as a form of child abuse or not. I am still thinking on it.

 

[jsfisher]

Really? He's terrible.

Do you have evidence?

Some of his tricks are fascinating.

I share Squeegee Beckenheim's opinion. Harnessing yourself to a metal bracket on the side of a bus, then touring the city is not magic. Magic is a performance art. When it is only gimmick (which is what Dynamo relies on mostly), it is terrible.

For a really, really good example of the art, see if you cannot find a video of Teller performing the classic, cups and balls. Teller uses clear plastic cups.

 

[marplots]

That's interesting Marplots, thank you.

So are you saying Dynamo is encouraging wooism? (I am saying he is) Can you point me to any Magician who isn't?
By that I mean to say, I am interested in the possibility that there are and having a look at how they present their tricks to the public.

Penn and Teller come to mind. They've even done a TV show debunking various forms of woo. If you can find them pushing woo with their magic act, I'd be surprised - except - sometimes "woo" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Navigator]

Penn and Teller come to mind. They've even done a TV show debunking various forms of woo. If you can find them pushing woo with their magic act, I'd be surprised - except - sometimes "woo" is in the eye of the beholder.

Well I guess sometimes 'woo' IS in the eye of the beholder Marplots.

So we have 2 votes for Penn & Teller...they stand alone...? Perhaps the only true light of what real Magicians are about...?

 

[AdMan]

Well I guess sometimes 'woo' IS in the eye of the beholder Marplots.

So we have 2 votes for Penn & Teller...they stand alone...?

No, they don't stand alone. Some that come to mind (particularly this TAM weekend)--Banacheck, Jamy Ian Swiss, oh, and James Randi, among many others.

 

[fromdownunder]

I would suggest Harry Houdini who spent much of his later life debunking woo as one to add as well.

Norm

 

[Garrette]

In that vein you should include Neville Maskelyne wo, iirc, testified in court to expose a fraud. He replicated the supposedly paranormal feat while in the witness stand.

 

[Garrette]

Hi Garrette
To clarify, the tricks which fool children also have to be more clever than what you have exampled.

You miss my point. It is not the cleverness that matters, but the context and manner in which presented. (NB: I think we agree that although I am speaking in absolutes it is for ease of communication only; I understand there are exceptions)

I haven't made up my mind if that could be classed as a form of child abuse or not. I am still thinking on it.

I have.

 

[Andy_Ross]

P & T had a show on British TV called Penn and Teller, Fool Us
It was a magic competition show, which challenged magicians to perform in front of Penn & Teller. If they could fool them they would win a trip to Las Vegas to perform as the opening act in Penn & Teller's show.
It featured a whole bunch of magicians better than Dynamo, some of whome did fool P & T.

For some reason ITV axed it even though it was bringing in an audience higher than the average for the time slot.

 

[Navigator]

For a really, really good example of the art, see if you cannot find a video of Teller performing the classic, cups and balls. Teller uses clear plastic cups.

http://theawesomer.com/penn-teller-cups-balls-trick/131648/

I found a video and this is showing how a trick is done. That is showing the skill of quick hands and how to distract through voice and movement.

As they said, there is tremendous variation around the world but the trick is basically the same.

I think with Dynamo, the attraction is that some of his tricks have not been seen by the average person, and he does things like 'mind reading' walking through shop windows, - he works a lot with glass as well...so all this is building on his reputation even to the point where he is being spoken of as amazing and the best and the like.

A friend and I were talking about a trick he had done involving fake butterflies which seemed to come alive and fly around.
We had to agree that even given that everyone involved was in on it, it was impressive how they managed to get the fake butterflies to appear to come alive and fly around from positions that the same fake butterflies had been a moment before.

I suppose one could trace his upbringing and career but he comes across as someone who wasn't born into money so how he pays all these actors and other participants to play along just to make a magic program promoting himself is interesting and somewhat puzzling.

 

[Navigator]

P & T had a show on British TV called Penn and Teller, Fool Us
It was a magic competition show, which challenged magicians to perform in front of Penn & Teller. If they could fool them they would win a trip to Las Vegas to perform as the opening act in Penn & Teller's show.
It featured a whole bunch of magicians better than Dynamo, some of whome did fool P & T.

For some reason ITV axed it even though it was bringing in an audience higher than the average for the time slot.

Yes I remember seeing parts of that series and found it very interesting. I would have to go back and take another look to see if those tricks could be considered better than some of the tricks Dynamo does, although of course it needs to be taken into consideration that some of the tricks he plays wouldn't be able to be achieved in the environment P&T use for their show...or so I assume - should assumption be classed as actual evidence that they couldn't be done in such circumstances...

Given though that some of the tricks of these magicians on P&Ts show did fool them, is only to suggest that to be fooled is simply to not know how the trick is done, and believing therefore that it is 'real magic' ... so were they really 'fooled' or simply saying that they didn't know how the trick was being done.

 

[jsfisher]

I think with Dynamo, the attraction is that some of his tricks have not been seen by the average person, and he does things like 'mind reading' walking through shop windows, - he works a lot with glass as well...so all this is building on his reputation even to the point where he is being spoken of as amazing and the best and the like.

That doesn't make his performance any less terrible. His tricks are not particularly unique nor well performed.

 

[Alan]

http://theawesomer.com/penn-teller-cups-balls-trick/131648/

I found a video and this is showing how a trick is done. That is showing the skill of quick hands and how to distract through voice and movement.

As they said, there is tremendous variation around the world but the trick is basically the same.

I think with Dynamo, the attraction is that some of his tricks have not been seen by the average person, and he does things like 'mind reading' walking through shop windows, - he works a lot with glass as well...so all this is building on his reputation even to the point where he is being spoken of as amazing and the best and the like.

A friend and I were talking about a trick he had done involving fake butterflies which seemed to come alive and fly around.
We had to agree that even given that everyone involved was in on it, it was impressive how they managed to get the fake butterflies to appear to come alive and fly around from positions that the same fake butterflies had been a moment before.

I suppose one could trace his upbringing and career but he comes across as someone who wasn't born into money so how he pays all these actors and other participants to play along just to make a magic program promoting himself is interesting and somewhat puzzling.

Just as using actors to play along is a lazy method to perform, it is a lazy guess at a method. A rule of thumb in magic is if you think it was done with actors, you have no idea.

 

[Navigator]

Just as using actors to play along is a lazy method to perform, it is a lazy guess at a method. A rule of thumb in magic is if you think it was done with actors, you have no idea.

Yes - but having no idea how the trick is done does not make the trick real.
My attitude is that all magic is not real, and that I don't know how most of it is done, is irrelevant.

I know it is illusion. It is not real. That is all I need to know.

EDIT: Also, when my friend was admiring the butterfly trick and we talked about how even if everyone was involved, how did those fake butterflies suddenly turn real, my friend started getting all wooish and saying that maybe Dynamo had some access to another dimension.

I told him that no matter how much he was tempted to belief such horse pucky, never under any circumstance go down that path because it simply isn't true. I told him that was one of the major reasons why ordinary folk can fall down that slippery path of wooism and that magicians and their tricks in general were not helping the cause of getting rid of such tripe, but rather encouraging it.

Just because he couldn't understand how the trick was done, did not mean that anything 'supernatural' was happening.

 

[Azrael 5]

Dynamo is possibly worst magician Ive ever seen.Having being a fan of magic(amateur hobbyist but read an awful lot) for 35 years I can state that without doubt.Slight argument to authority I guess. I dont think im breaking rules here, but Navigator a lot of Dyanmo's tricks dont work off TV and with random spectators.