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Merged Due process in the US

well they’re not gang experts and the case before them wasn’t if he was in a gang. you’re latching onto ultimately irrelevant pieces of information on a related manner and picking the parts that support your conclusion and dismissing anything that doesn’t.
 
Again I ask, Garcia went before two judges. One was after his appeal.

So what Due Process did he not have? Due Process is when you have the right to defend yourself against charges against you. And appeal a decision you find to be wrong.

So, where exactly did Garcia not have his Due Process?
 
Hercules56 said:
Again I ask, Garcia went before two judges. One was after his appeal.

So what Due Process did he not have? Due Process is when you have the right to defend yourself against charges against you. And appeal a decision you find to be wrong.

So, where exactly did Garcia not have his Due Process?
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what were the charges? what was the outcome? what was the outcome of the appeal? where is he now?

you have all the information you need to answer your own question right there
 
dirtywick said:
what were the charges? what was the outcome? what was the outcome of the appeal? where is he now?

you have all the information you need to answer your own question right there
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There were no criminal charges.

He was accused of being an illegal alien (TRUE/UNCONTESTED)

He was accused of being a member of an illegal foreign gang. Judge agreed charge was validated.

Garcia contested this, and a second judge rejected his appeal. But he was protected from deportation.

ICE incorrectly deported him. In error.

So, where is the missing Due Process?
 
more so where they labeled him a criminal and incorrectly deported him directly to a foreign prison under the pretense that he had been convicted of a crime. there’s a whole bunch of due process missing there. you wrote it out even

less so where he was “charged” with being an illegal foreign gang member. he was accused of that by the police, but that wasn’t a crime or a charge of any kind, and judges don’t validate charges anyway.
 
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dirtywick said:
more so where they labeled him a criminal and incorrectly deported him directly to a foreign prison under the pretense that he had been convicted of a crime. there’s a whole bunch of due process missing there. you wrote it out even

less so where he was “charged” with being an illegal foreign gang member. he was accused of that by the police, but that wasn’t a crime or a charge of any kind, and judges don’t validate charges anyway.
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They labeled him a gang member. Two judges agreed, one on appeal.

He was mistakenly deported.

Illegal aliens dont need to have a charge of being a member of a criminal organization rule on by a jury in order to justify deportation.

Im not 100% sure, but it appears that when it comes to deportation of illegal aliens, all that is required is probable cause that someone is a member of a criminal organization. And two judges agreed that the probable cause was reasonable. No conviction is required.

BUT, if you want to put them in prison for being a gang member, criminal conviction is required. Except he wasn't put in prison in the USA.

BUT again, the deportation was recognized as a mistake. So yes the Tramp administration should try to bring him back, and not doing so is contempt of court.

I think Due Process, in this case, is a red herring.
 
well good luck to you then, i think it’s plainly obvious why due process is of vital importance in this case. this could go on for pages and pages endlessly on repeat like this kind of crap always does in these discussions here and i really don’t have the interest. i’m just going to stop here unless something new or interesting is added to the discussion, as i have nothing new to add.
 
dirtywick said:
well good luck to you then, i think it’s plainly obvious why due process is of vital importance in this case. this could go on for pages and pages endlessly on repeat like this kind of crap always does in these discussions here and i really don’t have the interest. i’m just going to stop here unless something new or interesting is added to the discussion, as i have nothing new to add.
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So you're not gonna tell us what Due Process he was not able to take advantage of?
 
Hercules56 said:
So you're not gonna tell us what Due Process he was not able to take advantage of?
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The process of being lawfully deported to anywhere other than El Salvador, since the judge ordered that should not happen.

But there are two different actions here; deportation and imprisonment. What's the due process that allows the US government to order him to be jailed by their Salvadorean contractor?
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
The process of being lawfully deported to anywhere other than El Salvador, since the judge ordered that should not happen.

But there are two different actions here; deportation and imprisonment. What's the due process that allows the US government to order him to be jailed by their Salvadorean contractor?
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He was not deported due to a lack of Due Process, he was deported to El Salvador due to an error.

As for being in prison without a criminal conviction, that is a lack of Due Process. But he's not in an American prison.

However I agree he should be brought back to the USA, or at the very least moved to a different country. And not put in a prison absent criminal conviction.
 
Wasn't there a court order that he could not be deported to El Salvador because he would be at risk? And this is the basis for the government's admission that it was mistake?

It just shows how incompetent these people are - he could be deported, but just not to El Salvador, and they still couldn't do it right.

{ETA I wrote this before the last posts showed up}
 
And yet...the judges did not rule on it. All the BBC report says is that loitering happened. They cannot rule on just loitering. Even the quotes on judges are just hearsay.
 
Hercules56 said:
He was not deported due to a lack of Due Process, he was deported to El Salvador due to an error.

As for being in prison without a criminal conviction, that is a lack of Due Process. But he's not in an American prison.

However I agree he should be brought back to the USA, or at the very least moved to a different country. And not put in a prison absent criminal conviction.
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The error, in this case defying a court order, is an abuse of process.

He's in prison on American orders. Nobody else has imprisoned him. The Salvadorean legal system has not imprisoned him. The US government's contractor has imprisoned him on US government instruction. Jurisdiction of the country where the prison stands is irrelevant since the legal system of that country is not involved.

The remedy is obviously not for the US to order the Salvadorean courts to release him because they are not holding him. The remedy is for the US government to cease telling its contractor to hold him in prison.
 
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