Dowsing

[pgwenthold]

I think people here are being a little obtuse to what GA is saying. He's not saying that Randi's tests don't do what they say they can do. He's saying, and I think it's a good point, that based on what I understand dowsers to think they do, that finding an underground natural source for water could be different than finding it in a pipe. For one thing, you'd expect that the underground source would have quite a bit of water.

Sure there are dowsers who wanted to take the test, and they thought they could find it in pipes and failed, but I can see them going home and saying "well, I thought pipes would work, but anyway I know I can find it in springs/aquifers in the ground."

Then they will have to just test for that. They are allowed to reapply for the prize, and in the subsequent trial they will have to insist that there can't be pipes.

Two things: 1) all challengers are advised to test themselves before taking the challenge. Thus, they only have themselves to blame if they agree to a test that they cannot pass

2) Randi has made it absolutely clear all over the place that the failures of these tests do not prove that things such as dowsing or ESP don't exist (although he has also stated that he is of the opinion that they don't). Thus, excuses that the failures do not really show anything whether dowsing can occur for water not in pipes are total strawmen. The tests are designed to test things that the person claims they are able to do, no more or no less. The passing or failing of a test where water is running through pipes does not address what would happen if water is not in pipes, and Randi knows that. The reasons they use water in pipes are 1) it is easier, and, more importantly, 2) the applicant agrees to it.

 

[The Fool]

Normally you just rely on all dowsers inability to control themselves.

Give them any form of open preliminary test....buried bottles, buckets of water, any damn thing. Ask them to test thier abilities when they know the targets location. Even if they say they can "only find large volume of water" Thier little bits of wire will twitch like crazy!!! they will pass the test with flying colours, they just cannot resist the temptation to demonstrate a power.....
then comes the same test repeated blind....ooops.....usual result.