Double Tree Video Released?
- Thread starter JAStewart
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rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
His gripe is that the US gubmint didn't exercise Prior Restraint on any-and-everybody who could/might/would hurt US citizens by some means that would, on the very face of it, violate every provision of the US Constitution (Prior restraint does, also). I would bet he likes indescriminate profiling, and is very firmly in favor of abridging my (and your) freedoms, just so he can feel saf(er), regardless of where I/you live.
He probably also thinks that TSA and Homeland Security violate his Constitutional freedoms...
Ok, I'll try to do this as briefly as possible, which will be hard because as I've said, I don't have a specific theory about 9/11. I've encountered anomallies in the official story (some I have already listed) that have always left me with a bad taste.
Let's get this out of the way, I do think it was a terrorist attack in a sense. Islamic rage against this country is a very real thing and anyone who denies that is a fool. I do think that warnings were ignored, yes.
I am troubled that a real investigation hasn't been done where it names those who failed us that day (as Richard Clarke so accurately put it). Again, it's their job to protect us. So any failure to do that should result in disciplinary action.
Also, we've had Kalid Skeikh what's-his-face in custody for over three years now. We've said that he was the mastermind behind the plan. So why hasn't he been tried?
And no, I don't believe any of this crap about "no planes." Bombs inside the building? Possible, but I have no proof of that and have read many conflicting reports on this. But since I don't have anything more than a hunch to work off on that one, I won't talk about it because it's my opinion, not an established fact.
Hope this helped. With that said I'm checking out for the day.
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
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- Mar 27, 2006
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The difference? the 9/9 video was essentially unedited. The more recent video was heavily edited to remove my presentations, facts and questions. Want to piss me off? Come to Ground Zero, spout lies about 9/11, get every single thing wrong, show that you know zero about the attacks, refuse to listen to my corrections, say you're proud of what you're saying and doing, and tell me that Christ wouldn't behave the way I do, while you stand there and exonerate terrorists and falsely accuse people of the murder of thousands. Damn right I'll be pissed. If you can dish it out but can't take it, expect to be criticized.
I believe it occurred because intelligent murderers took advantage of systemic weaknesses.
What leads you to believe that the official version is false?
See above.
Where's your specific response? I don't see it.
Yes, I want to know what your questions are and what knowledge they're based on. If you have claims, I want to see your evidence. That's what we do here. I hope you'll stick around if you're able to be specific, direct, and factual.
You couldn't be further off base, and I think you know better.
TheGrunion
Critical Thinker
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- Sep 15, 2006
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I suppose that you've never made a mistake or failed at something despite your best efforts.
Ok, I have to sign off but I'll indulge the first part of your post.
You're convicting me for the actions of idiots at ground zero. I'm not one of them. So get over it. I don't invoke Christ, or anything else, and I don't deny terrorism as I said a few posts up. I have not preached anything in my discussions here. So you need to sperate your view of me from your view of what you called "troofers."
Perhaps the video was edited, but you sure looked like a little kid begging for candy while everyone else ignored you. I tried to be fair in my past post with my comments on Alex Jones, which is far more than you've done for me. Remember, you attacked me first a few weeks back bud. Now, time to hit the city.
Night all.
I thought that was Ron Jeremy's face?
Abbyas
Muse
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- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 684
Ah, see? Common ground. With, uh, knowledge of unattractive men with large wieners.
Quick comment here. While I don't think Hierosis's reactions here have been one hundred percent justified, it's very difficult to follow ten different questions or comments to you especially if some of them (not all) are associating him/her with other CTers.
I've gotten a poop load of hate mail from various nutjobs, but I have met two or three genuinely concerned, kind individuals who A: one hundred percent believe loose change, B: have valid frustrations with government and have parlayed those frustrations into theories and C: genuinely have some questions re: 9/11 that I myself don't feel have been properly answered. The intelligent are in the minority, but they do exist.
And while I hate, HATE, the idea of going down to ground zero, associating oneself with those crap posters and signs, and shouting "9/11 was an inside job!", not all individuals who have questions, valid or otherwise, are those people. The problem is for them, their leaders are. And this is what we associate with "truthers" or "question askers".
It is a difficult road figuring who's a jerk, who's a nut, and who's a genuinely intelligent person or who's a combination, but we run the risk of alienating everyone when we "bad cop" everybody.
Quick comment here. While I don't think Hierosis's reactions here have been one hundred percent justified, it's very difficult to follow ten different questions or comments to you especially if some of them (not all) are associating him/her with other CTers.
I've gotten a poop load of hate mail from various nutjobs, but I have met two or three genuinely concerned, kind individuals who A: one hundred percent believe loose change, B: have valid frustrations with government and have parlayed those frustrations into theories and C: genuinely have some questions re: 9/11 that I myself don't feel have been properly answered. The intelligent are in the minority, but they do exist.
And while I hate, HATE, the idea of going down to ground zero, associating oneself with those crap posters and signs, and shouting "9/11 was an inside job!", not all individuals who have questions, valid or otherwise, are those people. The problem is for them, their leaders are. And this is what we associate with "truthers" or "question askers".
It is a difficult road figuring who's a jerk, who's a nut, and who's a genuinely intelligent person or who's a combination, but we run the risk of alienating everyone when we "bad cop" everybody.
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Great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.
Or we both have more information about the porn industry than we should be too eager to admit to!
Hey, I have no problem copping up to the porn thing.
Though I did meet the hedgehog a few years back. One of the funniest guys I've ever met.Hey, I have no problem copping up to the porn thing.
I'm sure you have to have a good sense fo humour to survive in that industry for so long.
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
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That was a hypothetical. I wasn't accusing you of those things. I was explaining why I was pissed off at that guy.
My issue with you is that you seem to want us to resolve your questions about 9/11. Most of us believe that the official version is essentially correct. If you have specific things to dispute in that account, you'll find no shortage of discussion here. But repeatedly saying "Don't you think..." isn't a basis for discussion. It's a leading question that most of us probably don't agree with. We want to know what you think, and why.
You mentioned your disatisfaction with our previous encounter. Here it is. It was much like this one: many assumptions, few specifics.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2000208#post2000208
Hierosis:
At this point I have to say something. Up until now, for the most part you have seemed civil, and certainly not confrontational.
I do not know Mark Roberts well, but I have gotten to know his mannerisms in debate here, as well as his views, and his dedication to this topic. This man has spent more time researching 9/11 and the events around it than anyone I know. I would venture to say more than any of the "truthers".
His conduct at GZ, as I have seen through the video in question, and other videos is not deplorable or horrific. Edited the way it is, and if you do not know the full circumstances around it, may make it seem that way, but it isnt.
Mark and a few fellow NYCers go down to GZ as many weekends as they can to basicly defend the "other side" of 9/11. That is because, if they did not, you would have hundreds and thousands of americans exposed to half truths and speculation, with nothing backing it up except the comments of the snake oil salesmen.
Is he in their face...you bet, and I would be too. These guys spout of lies, and insults, and libel, and if Mark were not there, they would have free reign, with noone to hold them accountable. Most of what he does, if you actually watch, is let the "truthers" have there turn, then he takes the people they were talking to aside, and shows them his stuff. He is passionate...I mean he is from NYC. I suspect he lost someone he knew that day. If he didnt, he certainly lost any innocence he may have had left.
I suppose a certain amount of shaiting on him is expected, as it is for Dylan Avery and Alex Jones, as Mark is at the front of this side of the "war", but as a soldier in that army, I am gonna defend him for what he does.
May sound trite, or orchestrated, but it is the truth. If I were in NYC, I would be down there with him, and in their faces as well.
TAM
At this point I have to say something. Up until now, for the most part you have seemed civil, and certainly not confrontational.
I do not know Mark Roberts well, but I have gotten to know his mannerisms in debate here, as well as his views, and his dedication to this topic. This man has spent more time researching 9/11 and the events around it than anyone I know. I would venture to say more than any of the "truthers".
His conduct at GZ, as I have seen through the video in question, and other videos is not deplorable or horrific. Edited the way it is, and if you do not know the full circumstances around it, may make it seem that way, but it isnt.
Mark and a few fellow NYCers go down to GZ as many weekends as they can to basicly defend the "other side" of 9/11. That is because, if they did not, you would have hundreds and thousands of americans exposed to half truths and speculation, with nothing backing it up except the comments of the snake oil salesmen.
Is he in their face...you bet, and I would be too. These guys spout of lies, and insults, and libel, and if Mark were not there, they would have free reign, with noone to hold them accountable. Most of what he does, if you actually watch, is let the "truthers" have there turn, then he takes the people they were talking to aside, and shows them his stuff. He is passionate...I mean he is from NYC. I suspect he lost someone he knew that day. If he didnt, he certainly lost any innocence he may have had left.
I suppose a certain amount of shaiting on him is expected, as it is for Dylan Avery and Alex Jones, as Mark is at the front of this side of the "war", but as a soldier in that army, I am gonna defend him for what he does.
May sound trite, or orchestrated, but it is the truth. If I were in NYC, I would be down there with him, and in their faces as well.
TAM
Abbyas
Muse
- Joined
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- 684
Ahh, the difficulties of a message board. How to read the tone of someone's post.
The guy came here after finding out his picture was posted (something we've griped about the LC boards doing), and he tried to laugh it off and received demands that he clarify his views and the evidence to support them...
And while, Mark, I'm sure that your intentions were honorable and genuinely welcoming here:
I think that we can understand how that would be taken as a demand.
This will be the last time I defend anyone connected with the 9/11 truth mov't, I swear. If I have to give up my nunchucks, I'm gonna be very upset.
Honestly, If I went to Ground Zero, I could barely contain myself: I would yell Quebecer insanities at them and want to punch their faces, literally.
How Gravy can restrain himself as it is is trully amazing.