Double-think

[chipmunk stew]

And consider this; how is O'Reilly calling Fetzer a "traitor" any different from A. Jones calling people such as Mark Roberts "shills" or "traitors"? It's rhetoric. It's designed to stir up emotion in the support base of the person making the comment. It is not, however, on par with what happened with McCarthy.

And that wasn't even on par with a number of things that happened earlier in our country's history.

 

[Gravy]

the power of nightmares isnt biased, watch it

I did. It's extremely biased.

Alex Jones is a fear salesman. That's his whole schtick. He doesn't have the slightest interest in the truth. Did you read about his behavior in my WTC 7 paper? Do you approve of it?

 

[Hellbound]

And that wasn't even on par with a number of things that happened earlier in our country's history.

Very true.

BUt you know, there'd be all this evidence of what's going on now if everyone weren't afraid to talk about it...and the government is planning a new world order, and the world will end soon, and we're all in danger of our government, and it's going to facism, and...and...and...

I'm sorry, who was fear-mongering again?

 

[Gravy]

You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd

It's nice to look at references. But what do you have to say about them?

 

[uk_dave]

I would be interested in peoples views on this. In an alex jones video a lady on the street is asked about the london bombing and the subsequent shooting of the brazilian man on the tube train.

She says something startling: "i am prepared to give up my liberty for freedom"

are liberty and freedom different?

Jones makes the connection to the doublethink in 1984. war is peace, freedom is slavery etc

its convincing to me. but hey im just a fruitloop

It's an interesting proposition.

But don't we already give up some liberties for our freedom or safety?

We are not at liberty to drive at whatever speed we want on public roads
We are not at liberty to drive without wearing a seatbelt.
We are not at liberty to travel from one country to another without showing some form of approved identification
We are not at liberty to earn money without paying taxes to the government which may then spend our money on things we don't want or don't use.
We are not (in the UK) at liberty to own any and all firearms we can afford and use them for our own personal 'safety'

We do accept many infringements on what might be called our liberty because we live in societies which have rules.

When, in an heightened atmosphere such as that after a failed terrorist attack in london, the police make a tragic mistake and shoot dead someone completely unconnected with terrorism, we are not saying "oh that's ok, it's the price you have to pay for being free" anymore than we would if a major bank robbery was occuring and armed police accidentally shot dead a civilian during a firefight with the bank robbers. We don't say "It's ok, it's to be expected". But at the end of the day tragic accidents will happen and we have to live with it while expecting of those who are set to protect us a greater degree of care and improved systems of control in future.

 

[Gravy]

the public cant dissent because the =y are then called traitors and terrorist symathisers.

The public can't dissent? They dissent every wekend at Ground Zero. Last month over a thousand of them were there dissenting all over lower Manhattan. They were protected by the police (mostly from traffic), not stopped by them. Meanwhile, Alex Jones was on his bullhorn ranting about the "police state." I'm proud that my tax dollars goes into the protection of such rights.

If someone calls them names, so what? People call me names. That's their right. I can handle it. It's when they attempt to try to stop me from exercising my rights – which people on your side have done – that I get mad.

pdoherty, do you EVER stop to think before you post?

 

[MarkyX]

Wikipedia

Doublethink (known in Oldspeak but never used as reality control) is an integral concept in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, and is the act of holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, fervently believing both, and being unaware of their incompatibility.

Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.

CLAIM 1: Bush is stupid moron who almost got killed by a preztel

CLAIM 2: Bush created the most elaborate scheme (9/11) to go to war.

CLAIM 1: The Twin Towers fell on their own footprint

CLAIM 2: Debris was spit out from the towers at over one hundred feet in distance. Clearly evidence of explosive devices

CLAIM 1: There is no way 19 arabs pulled off 9/11

CLAIM 2: The New World Order consists of a small group of people who wish to dominate the world. They are "black operatives" (AJ's own words) and control everything.

CLAIM 1: We are doing this because we are patriots who love our country and don't want to see another Hitler in power.

CLAIM 2: We will use American Free Press to spread this information and get our facts. AFP is owned by Willis Carto, who is a holocaust denier and also runs the Barnes Review. The Barnes Review has an article on how Hitler should've won the Noble Peace Prize.

CLAIM 1: We believe in freedom

CLAIM 2: But we will not tolerate those who oppose us and outright silence them if we can. (Democracy Now debate, every 9/11 Denier forum board). If you oppose our views, you are either too stupid or paid off. Those who favor gun control are Nazis (Alex Jones words!)

CLAIM 1: We are in this for truth

CLAIM 2: However, we will quote mine witnesses, fire fighters, and manipulate audo/footage to stick with our claims.

You guys fall victim to 1984 over and over. Don't get me started with "Ignorance is Strength" bit.

 

[JamesB]

spindrift the comparison could have used other examples, i believe more people die from choking than are killed by terrorists aswell.

You may indeed be right that the government only exploited the situation, but then I look at the pearl harbour references in PNAC and the Grand Chessboarrd

What "pearl harbour references"? Like this one from Rebuilding America's Defenses (on page 67, but I don't think any conspiracy theorists have ever read that far)?

Absent a rigorous program of experimentation to investigate the nature of the revolution in military affairs as it applies to war at sea, the Navy might face a future Pearl Harbor – as unprepared for war in the post-carrier era as it was unprepared for war at the dawn of the carrier age.

Ooh, sounds pretty damning. I am sure you can get an indictment based on that alone.

 

[uk_dave]

What "pearl harbour references"? Like this one from Rebuilding America's Defenses (on page 67, but I don't think any conspiracy theorists have ever read that far)?



Ooh, sounds pretty damning. I am sure you can get an indictment based on that alone.

And it's always handy when conspirators publish their intentions online...possibly while chewing on the nail of their little fingers and cackling wildly.

Though that is, of course, optional... in NWO circles.

 

[Pardalis]

Wikipedia

Wikipedia

Quote:
Doublethink (known in Oldspeak but never used as reality control) is an integral concept in George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, and is the act of holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, fervently believing both, and being unaware of their incompatibility.
Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.

Here are some 9/11 Denier claims.

Quote:
CLAIM 1: Bush is stupid moron who almost got killed by a preztel

CLAIM 2: Bush created the most elaborate scheme (9/11) to go to war.
Quote:

CLAIM 1: The Twin Towers fell on their own footprint

CLAIM 2: Debris was spit out from the towers at over one hundred feet in distance. Clearly evidence of explosive devices

CLAIM 1: There is no way 19 arabs pulled off 9/11

CLAIM 2: The New World Order consists of a small group of people who wish to dominate the world. They are "black operatives" (AJ's own words) and control everything.

CLAIM 1: We are doing this because we are patriots who love our country and don't want to see another Hitler in power.

CLAIM 2: We will use American Free Press to spread this information and get our facts. AFP is owned by Willis Carto, who is a holocaust denier and also runs the Barnes Review. The Barnes Review has an article on how Hitler should've won the Noble Peace Prize.

CLAIM 1: We believe in freedom

CLAIM 2: But we will not tolerate those who oppose us and outright silence them if we can. (Democracy Now debate, every 9/11 Denier forum board). If you oppose our views, you are either too stupid or paid off. Those who favor gun control are Nazis (Alex Jones words!)

CLAIM 1: We are in this for truth

CLAIM 2: However, we will quote mine witnesses, fire fighters, and manipulate audo/footage to stick with our claims.

You guys fall victim to 1984 over and over. Don't get me started with "Ignorance is Strength" bit.

Terrific post Marky.

 

[pdoherty76]

It's nice to look at references. But what do you have to say about them?

i think they are very suspicious given that an event compered to pearl harbour then happened and the neocons immediately started referring to it as an "opportunity"

With regard to alex jones, i personally think he is a brave man who confronts people that most people wont.

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

 

[Matthew Best]

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

Wow. You really should open your eyes a bit more, then.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

i think they are very suspicious given that an event compered to pearl harbour then happened and the neocons immediately started referring to it as an "opportunity"

With regard to alex jones, i personally think he is a brave man who confronts people that most people wont.

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

Excuse me? The Branch Davidians, which it has been shown conclusively, to have set the fire themselves as well as having shot the children so they wouldn't flee the fire?

 

[uk_dave]

Could I ask you gravy what you think alex jones motive is? hes a good broadcaster, he could earn more money in the mainstream and lead a quiet life.

he had the church rebuilt at waco, the site of a disgraceful massacre by ur government, and i think thats one of the most noble things ive ever5 seen an american do

oh bugger. So you don't think alex jones is a deranged right wing religious nut job with the intellect of a 14 year old who went from a one room home radio station to his current 'status' on the basis of one crappy video from bohemian grove and an expansion of his pathological paranoid fear of the world fueled by the adoration of another load of 14 year olds in black t-shirts?

Shame, because I do.

 

[joobz]

Fear, in fact, helps all of us. Without fear we can become careless. Without fear we can sing ourselves into a sleep of self-security.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

---
Has politicians used Terrorist events for political gain?
Sure, it would be foolish not to use such tragedy politically. Especially if it results in proper corrective actions. (e.g., Going after Taliban).

The greatest crux to the terrorism CT issue is, What happens in 2 years? Bush can't go for another election. Who takes over this clever control of america?

 

[pdoherty76]

Excuse me? The Branch Davidians, which it has been shown conclusively, to have set the fire themselves as well as having shot the children so they wouldn't flee the fire?

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

 

[uk_dave]

you are disgusting. show this conclusive proof. i can show u proof that the military machine gunned them as they tried to flee. watch the film waco-a new revelation

Good grief.

You REALLY need to get out more.

 

[pdoherty76]

uk dave where is your proof of 14 year olds? i am not 14 so that immediately disproves it.

what a commited man alexs jones is to broadcast from his bedroom and infiltrate bohemian grove

 

[pdoherty76]

uk dave im still waiting for your evidence. we are strict here at jref we like people who have evidence to back up their claims

 

[pdoherty76]

see what happens when u lot are asked for evidence? u reply with the mature "u need to get out more" argument. very mature