Double blind acupuncture study?

[Soapy Sam]

I once allowed a friend (a physical therapist) to demonstrate the pain killing effects of accupuncture by sticking a needle in my forearm. Either my meridians are wired up wrong or her aim was. It was among the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced.

I can't see it being easy to get volunteers for this sort of experience.

 

[tcwolf]

How about a needle that gives a tiny shock when you touch the skin? That might feel like a needle prick, without actually penetrating the skin. If you couple this with subjects who have never had acupuncture, you might pull it off.

~~ Paul

No, this would be really bad. Because what would be our desired result? For them to claim it worked when nothing was actually done. But then they would SWEAR that it worked...and soon people would be using electric needles to cure chronic pain everywhere.

 

[tcwolf]

logic errors

See, the main problem I see with testing accupuncture is the charts they are so swamped over the internet and in alternative healing books. They have pictures of the bodies, with colored swirls with names in them. I don't think I have ever seen a chart like that with 'bad' spots on them.

So, according to the reasoning of the person, no matter where you stick a needle it would be good for the person.

 

[edthedoc]

It seems that involving an acupuncturist in the design of a trial would answer many of the above questions/points. I don't know any (all my friends are too sensible but it would be interesting to have an acupunturist involved in this thread.

Personally, I think using much bigger, blunter needles would be a great idea: most patients wouldn't come back for further treatment which would surely be a sign that they were cured.

 

[Guest]

I once allowed a friend (a physical therapist) to demonstrate the pain killing effects of accupuncture by sticking a needle in my forearm. Either my meridians are wired up wrong or her aim was. It was among the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced.

I can't see it being easy to get volunteers for this sort of experience.

If she didn't use an acupuncture needle, that could explain why you were in pain.

If she stuck the needle in too deep, that could explain why you were in pain.

Was your friend trained in acupuncture?

 

[Thanz]

WARNING: Extremely vague and possibly useless references below. Proceed with caution....

I remember reading about a doctor in toronto (a brain surgeon, I believe) who had some kind of ailment (back pain?) that had pretty much defeated modern medicine. Although skeptical, he tried acupucture at the behest of a friend, figuring he had nothing to lose. It helped him immensely. Now curious, he set to study why. He was going to do a study of how acupuncture affects certain areas of the brain. He had some preliminary results that showed acupunture techniques having the same success (in terms of measured activity in the brain) as other therapies for whatever ailment he was studying.

I haven't been able to dig up any kind of report or refernce about this now, however. It may not have been a double blind experiment, but at least the effects are being measured more objectively rather than simply asking the patient.

 

[rwald]

Have you heard of the "mind-body" effect? If you think it's going to help you, it may very well help you. That includes altering your brain patterns. You might even release some of your endorphens if you think the pain will go away. That doesn't mean the thearpy actually caused anything. If the patients knew they were being treated, the test proves nothing.

 

[xouper]

bump

 

[tamiO]

bump

thank you

I will find time to bump today.